HS Filters

[East_TX_Spa]

If pump failure rates due to clogging are significantly different for HS than other manufacturers using pumps of equal, high quality, I would be glad to learn the details.  

This, sir (with sincere respect), is the whole impetus behind having 100% No-Bypass Filtration.   It is not necessarily going to keep the water in the SPA cleaner, it is designed to keep your EQUIPMENT cleaner and thus resulting in a longer lifespan for your spa.  That is the greatest benefit of owning a HotSpring.  You'll still be using it 20 years from now, if you choose to.

I'm glad to know that you are enjoying your Envoy.  I hope to have one in my own backyard soon.

Terminator

[J._McD]

Somewhat correct, but I believe you may be misinterpreting the context of the statement.  100% No-Bypass Filtration means that 100% of the water is filtered BEFORE it enters the plumbing.  It is not intended to infer that all five filters are "filtering" 24/7.  When the jet pumps are off, water is continuously filtered through the circ pump filter.  When the jet pumps are running, water passes through all 5 filters.


  It pains me somewhat that you and Wisoki seem to think I'm blowing smoke.  I believe that I've represented myself on this board as straightforward as anyone possibly could.  I don't hide anything about me or the company I work for.  I consider myself to be a straight shooter.

HotSpring IS the world's #1 selling brand of portable spa.  There are reasons why they are.  The longevity and quality of the product is a primary reason.  If other spa companies are not giving their customers the same quality experience of spa ownership, that is to the customer's detriment, and is a shame.

Terminator

Thank you for your perspective and I respect your both your knowledge and experience in the industry.  Obviously, we all share common interests and sell different product lines that do good jobs for consumers in spite of their marginal differences.  If one was that much better than the other they would tend to dominate the industry.  It appears there are several dominant manufacturers that are excellant product lines.

As it relates to motors, with 21 years and so many customers that would be .002% motor failure, and I would find that spectacular.  But then again, these motors are single speed and run for maybe only 20-40 minutes a day, even if it is 365 days a year for 21 years.

[J._McD]

I respectfully have to strongly disagree

I don’t see where he is calling anyone a liar.

Or, maybe, just disagree...

So glad you "respectfully" disagree with someone by calling them a liar.

I think you are wrong, and the whole mentality of your post speaks more to someone with a bone to pick with HS than someone just looking for information. Your not a passionate expert on HS, but you certainly seem passionate about it.

respectfully,
-Ed

I seem to have pressed your passion button.   You are allowed to think whatever you wish, but this is not an issue of what is Right, or what is Wrong, nor is it even what is good, or what is better, but what is different, and our points of view are different.  That does not make your way of seeing things the only way to see them, so why be so harsh and judgmental when I admit, I am not the expert that you appear to be.  I am truly sorry if I offend you.

[Spatech_tuo]

My conclusion is that the benefits of  the Tri-X filtration system are nebulous.   

Someone mentioned the Grande went from about 150 sq ft filtering to about 300 sq ft at the same time it got larger HP pumps. I think one of the benefits of this new TRI-X filter is not really being mentioned. It allowed Hot Springs to double their filtering area and thus enabled the use of higher HP pumps WITHOUT having to enlarge the filtering compartment. That alone made the system better than the one with the standard filters. So maybe there isn't a big need to compare it to other spa filter systems but to understand what probably drove the change and where it really benefited Hot Springs.

[East_TX_Spa]

Again, Spatech, you are on the money.  In order to continue to be the only manufacturer offering 100% No-Bypass Filtration while using the HP pumps, there was a choice:  either put 10+ filters in the spa (not acceptable) or develop a new filter (Tri-X).  It was an innovation born out of necessity.

Terminator

[East_TX_Spa]

As it relates to motors, with 21 years and so many customers that would be .002% motor failure, and I would find that spectacular.  But then again, these motors are single speed and run for maybe only 20-40 minutes a day, even if it is 365 days a year for 21 years.

Exactly, now you're getting it!

Terminator

[stl-rex]

I thought I misread the title.  With all the posturing going on, I thought for sure it was an Arctic discussion.....
Nothing against HS quality, but the disadvantage I see and whether by default or by design, HS has no model with true 4 corner seating.  The Accolade comes close but is pretty small.  The corner seats always seemed the most comfortable regardless of brand.  I don't know failure rate on pumps, but 5 filters seems like overkill and the cost is a corner seat in the non-lounge models.  4 corner seating is awfully comfy for 2 couples, us and whomever we happen to have over.

I know Ed doesn't like the micropure depth filters, but after reading their website site micropure.ca and catching some older posts regarding them, I feel pretty confident they'll work just fine.  It will be interesting to see as they catch on how many mfrs switch.  Yes, you can soak and clean paper filters and save a few bucks, but I'd rather not mess with it if I don't have to.

[Bill_Stevenson]

East Tex Spa:

I wrote:  "If pump failure rates due to clogging are significantly different for HS than other manufacturers using pumps of equal, high quality, I would be glad to learn the details."    


You replied:  "This, sir (with sincere respect), is the whole impetus behind having 100% No-Bypass Filtration."

So you have made a claim, but you have only anecdotal information from your own experience, nothing on the failure rate from competition (keep in mind you would need to establish the pump failure rate for major brands) to back your argument.  

Not only can you not back your claim, but your argument is faulty.  Filters are installed for the primary purpose of removing particulates from the spa water for sanitary reasons.  I am an engineer and I can state that centrifugal pumps can handle a considerable amount of particulate in the water being passed through them without causing pump failures.  

As a matter of interest, I would like to hear from any of those interested in this discussion who have spa service backgrounds.  Especially from those whose experience is with brands other than HS.  Have any of you replaced a pump that failed because of premature impeller erosion?  If so, how often have you come across this type of problem?  From your experience and observation where such failures did occur, was the water being properly maintained?

My guess is that if the data could be found it would support the contention that pump failures are rarely if ever caused by inadequate filtration.  Rather, I would think that poor water chemistry is at the root of most failures.  

I am glad that you think HS makes the best spas and the best filtration systems.  I think you have blown the significance of the Tri-X filter design way out of proportion. It is a sales argument, not a user benefit of great value.  It is nice that they last for a long time and that they can be thoroughly cleaned in an ordinary dishwasher.  But they use up a lot of space and the water is not any cleaner in the tub.  A mixed blessing.

Thanks,

Bill        

[East_TX_Spa]

East Tex Spa:

I wrote:  "If pump failure rates due to clogging are significantly different for HS than other manufacturers using pumps of equal, high quality, I would be glad to learn the details."    

 
You replied:  "This, sir (with sincere respect), is the whole impetus behind having 100% No-Bypass Filtration."

So you have made a claim, but you have only anecdotal information from your own experience, nothing on the failure rate from competition (keep in mind you would need to establish the pump failure rate for major brands) to back your argument.  

Not only can you not back your claim, but your argument is faulty.

Sir,

1.  I am not an engineer.

2.  I have no knowledge of the failure rates of HotSpring Spa pumps nor of any other brand of spa.  I never made any such claim.  I never attempted to argue with any dealer about their pump failure rate.  If they have the same track record as we do, good for them and their customers.  I stated an anecdotal position that we (East Texas Spa) have only had to replace 8 pumps in 20 years and I believe it to be in large part because of the 100% No-Bypass Filtration.  Nothing more.

3. A couple of dealers accused me of embellishing a bit.  I did not.

4.  I stand behind my statement that filtering the water before it enters the pump, heater, and plumbing is better than not doing so.  Feel free to refute that statement.

5.  What claim are you saying I made and which argument can I not back up?

Terminator

[East_TX_Spa]

 

I am glad that you think HS makes the best spas and the best filtration systems.  I think you have blown the significance of the Tri-X filter design way out of proportion. It is a sales argument, not a user benefit of great value.  It is nice that they last for a long time and that they can be thoroughly cleaned in an ordinary dishwasher.  But they use up a lot of space and the water is not any cleaner in the tub.  A mixed blessing.

Thanks,

Bill        

Again, what have I blown out of proportion in regards to the Tri-X Filter?  The only statement I've made regarding those were in complementing Spatech on his keen observation of the necessity of the Tri-X Filters in order to maintain 100% No-Bypass Filtration.  You can't use a typical paper cartridge on them as they cannot withstand the waterflow, they will collapse.

Nowhere have I stated they were better than anything else on the market.  I don't do that.

It kind of seems like you have confused me with someone else you have had a disagreement with on the forum.

Terminator

[rfraboni]

With me being one of the unfortunate people there that does not currently have nor have I ever owned one I must admit the no bypass filtration really appeals to me.

I like the idea that the filter will prevent the sucking up any small items that may find there way into the tub, after all I have a 2 year old sun and things are winding up in all areas.  For some reason I do believe that if a service tech were to find a lego in the pump housing of a failed pump it would not be considered a warranty item.

I have been following this thread and felt I had to add my opinion to those being expressed.

I give it to Hotspring, even if this were to be considered nothing more that a marketing gimmik, I do not believe it is, it has worked and made me think about it and think it is a good idea.

[ebirrane]

I am truly sorry if I offend you.

Apology accepted!  

I wasn't saying you were wrong in your opinion and *I* apologize for implying that. Your definition of no-bypass was wrong. We can all certainly argue about its value.

-Ed

[stl-rex]

With me being one of the unfortunate people there that does not currently have nor have I ever owned one I must admit the no bypass filtration really appeals to me.

I like the idea that the filter will prevent the sucking up any small items that may find there way into the tub, after all I have a 2 year old sun and things are winding up in all areas.  For some reason I do believe that if a service tech were to find a lego in the pump housing of a failed pump it would not be considered a warranty item.

I have been following this thread and felt I had to add my opinion to those being expressed.

I give it to Hotspring, even if this were to be considered nothing more that a marketing gimmik, I do not believe it is, it has worked and made me think about it and think it is a good idea.

I believe all spas have macro filters to prevent stuff like lego's getting the spa.  I wouldn't make it your primary concern.  Personally I would focus on fit and float ie are the seating positions comfortable and can you stay in them, and then do the jets feel good/hit you in the right places.  Wet test several and pick the one that feels best to you and that's probably the best spa for you.  

[mxw128]

WOW, what a chain of responses.  I had thought that the number was "65" so I was surprised to see the " . " in between the two numbers molded on them...

I also noticed that one of the tri-x is missing the plastic tube inside the filter (the part that would go over the standpipe)  Big deal?  Think I should take it back to the dealer?

[Wisoki]

Holly crap, the laughs keep coming!

Nope, you should all be doing 100% No-Bypass Filtration.  Do it for the children.

Terminator