Arctic pricing themselves out of business

[Steve]

thanks stabby...good to hear from ya!

Steve                      

[stl-rex]

Hard to believe I know... but I have an opinion on this!

First off, Arctic isn't going anywhere. They are very stable and have carved themselves a very good niche in the market as a quality spa. (Someone wanna pick stl-rex off of the floor for me... )


Steve

Actually, when I started looking for a spa more than a month ago, I got a straight answer from you  that said something quite similar.  So only my jaw dropped from hearing it again.  I didn't fall down.

Actually, when I had talked with the Arctic dealer, I got the straight poop.  Basically here's the price and then by the way, here's the list price on that spa.  The price was in line with what I wanted to pay and not out of line with other mainstream names.  I pushed, but really didn't get any farther.  If I had to estimate pricing looking at comparable top end models within a line, I'd say HS and Sundance were actually higher, although with Sundance, it's hard to tell, because I could never get a straight price, just a "range".  There may be some Arctic dealers who ask more or play games.  It's also a shame because they are perpetuating the problem.  To me it means nothing if you show me a big discount.  That just means it was improperly priced in the beginning.

If you read through this board, it's not hard to take a rather dim view of dealers as you go in to negotiate.  You see a wide variety of prices not necessarily explained by freight.  What's tough is the person in Montana with probably 10 spa dealers in the state probably isn't going to get the same deal as the person in Chicago with 100 spa dealers in that metro area.  Not enough competition.  Many of the price posts have no geographic area referenced so it gives the illusion of excessive pricing to some areas.  A smaller volume dealer is going to have to get more margin or sell something other than spas to stay in business.


What a dismal outlook on your local dealers. If someone came in there as a reputable dealer, all of those companies would be out of business quickly! I think you'll find that a HUGE majority of dealers are in NO WAY out to "get what they can" from consumers. It's a very short sighted approach to business IMO and very short lived. I recommend to my dealers that they price their spas properly and we help add value with factory promotions. I don't want my dealers inflating their price. It's usually done to show "perceived value" in a hike it up and cut it down sort of presentation or it’s done to make room for negotiations. Either concept is poorly thought out.

I apologize if you think it's a dim approach.  But I shopped around enough to know it's a price game in the industry in general.  Why is it like having teeth pulled to get a price?  Why does the price drop $500 as I get ready to walk out the door?  Steve, your dealers may not operate like that, but many do.

Regarding Europe, I remember looking at the Master Europe site.  Their prices in pounds were just about what the USD price was.  Factoring currency exchange, that's like 1.75x the US price.  Someone is making some good margin in Europe!

[Steve]

Good reply stl-rex and I'm glad you didn't break a hip falling down!

I apologize if you think it's a dim approach.  But I shopped around enough to know it's a price game in the industry in general.  Why is it like having teeth pulled to get a price?  Why does the price drop $500 as I get ready to walk out the door?  Steve, your dealers may not operate like that, but many do.

There's no need to apologize unless you are a dealer perpetuating this, which you are not.

I was recently shopping for what I consider to be a very expensive digital camera. In dealing with one company, I asked whether or not this was a sale price I was quoted on the model I wanted with which he responded yes. I told him that I had one more store to check out and with that he discounted it another $150.00. This really bugs me! I explained what he did and the fact that his price before I went to leave was actually more than he was willing to sell it to me for. I explained that all this does is show me that he was trying to rip me off initially. I think he got it as I walked out to make this purchase elsewhere...We weren't talking a few hundred bucks either...

I'm unclear how ANY company can operate this way and if there's anyone here who does, I would be open to understand why.

Steve

[stl-rex]

I'm unclear how ANY company can operate this way and if there's anyone here who does, I would be open to understand why.

Steve

Steve, I'll take a stab from the dealer's side (even though I am a consumer).  
With the internet creating at a minimum, a national market place (intl if CDN and USD pricing is truly just an exchange rate difference), your competition just increased even if in theory only.  Information is a powerful tool.  Just look at the numbers floated here.  Even if exaggerated, they empower the customer.  If you want the sale, some margins are going to be squeezed and you make it up on others.  I still maintain that some dealers will get as good of a read on their customer as possible and then gamble on their level of knowledge in determining where they think they can be and not have that person walk out.  That allows them to give up the occasional margin to the savvy consumer and still keep the sale.  I may be wrong, but based on what I've seen they do it, although not always with great skill.

[Mendocino101]

If you read through this board, it's not hard to take a rather dim view of dealers as you go in to negotiate.  You see a wide variety of prices not necessarily explained by freight.  What's tough is the person in Montana with probably 10 spa dealers in the state probably isn't going to get the same deal as the person in Chicago with 100 spa dealers in that metro area.  Not enough competition.  Many of the price posts have no geographic area referenced so it gives the illusion of excessive pricing to some areas.  A smaller volume dealer is going to have to get more margin or sell something other than spas to stay in business.

There is much more than just freight ...It is the cost of doing business in some areas ....Also something I have posted about many times but never has any responded to it....but in some areas it is only practical to install 7 to 9 months out of the year ....but the dealer must stay open year around ....And to add as I have posted many times before ....I think by and large your average spa dealer is a small local business serving the community in which they live and most are just looking to make a fair living ....perhaps I am naive but I do believe this to be true .....the greedy dealers in business will not be around long ....

[stl-rex]

There is much more than just freight ...It is the cost of doing business in some areas ....Also something I have posted about many times but never has any responded to it....but in some areas it is only practical to install 7 to 9 months out of the year ....but the dealer must stay open year around ....And to add as I have posted many times before ....I think by and large your average spa dealer is a small local business serving the community in which they live and most are just looking to make a fair living ....perhaps I am naive but I do believe this to be true .....the greedy dealers in business will not be around long ....

I mentioned freight as I remember it being tossed out before.  I also remember your post alluding to overhead.  I'm sure a dealer in Hollywood, CA has different overhead than St. Louis, MO.  Whether they move more spas or not I don't know.  Many of the dealers here sell pools bbq's etc and then we have Watsons that sells everything including Caldera and Cal spa.  FYI - my Arctic dealer is a small business owned/run by two guys trying to make a living and establishing an Arctic presence in St. Louis.  They sell Arctic, Coyote and the Guild Billiards products.  They are both nice guys and I wish them well.

[Mendocino101]

I guess we are suggesting the same thing in that freight costs do vary but not by more than a couple hundred dollars at the most and that it is much more than just freight that causes  prices to vary..... there are the big super type stores and in the big picture those to might just a local business person who has grown his business ...but by and large across the country spa dealers are usually family run.