What's the Best Hot Tub

Author Topic: Question for the pros  (Read 9367 times)

stl-rex

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Re: Question for the pros
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2005, 11:20:59 pm »
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As a dealer for another line of tubs (which I'll not mention here, since it isn't one you're considering), if I was in your position, I'd take the Sundance.  They are the only other brand outside of what I sell that I would ever recommend to friends or family.  

I definately recommend wet testing both lines because comfort is a huge issue, but as far as quality, the Jacuzzi is nice, but Sundance is far superior.  

Good luck in finding the right one for you!


Sundance and Jacuzzi supposedly come off the same line and have similar warranties.  In my quest for a spa, tripped over the J365.  Still have to wet test, but why the apparent preference for Sundance?  What makes it so superior?  The price differential, at least with essentially no haggling, is staggering, not to mention the folks at Jacuzzi were a lot nicer than the Sundance folks.  I know the dealer is irrelevant to the hot tub quality, but we're talking a substantial price difference between the J365 and the Optima.  Other general comments or knowledge of general Jacuzzi quality also appeciated, first hand preferred.  That said, until a wet test proves otherwise, Arctic still reigns first for comfort, but they too are at substantial price disadvantage vs the Jacuzzi.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2005, 11:22:07 pm by rexspent »

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Re: Question for the pros
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2005, 11:20:59 pm »

ebirrane

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Re: Question for the pros
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2005, 10:13:57 am »
Well, like you said, they are both made by the same manufacturer (or "come off the same line").  

Why would a manufacturer make two identical tubs and price them differently?  They don't.  I think what TubsAndCues was implying is that the differences are not "bells and whistles".

If I remember from past threads on jacuzzi and sundance, the following have been offered as differences.  not advocating either, but it might add another dimension to the research.  If anyone knowledgable can speak to these, please do!

1. Sundance started with the powerful pumps and they were migrated to the jacuzzi without updates to the plumbing infrastructure which can cause problems over time.

2. The filtration on the Sundance tub is superior, with longer-lasting filters, a much higher capacity circulation pump (which aids filtration and ozonation), and more-fine-tuned filtration (5-micron or down to 1 micron with pre-filter).

3. The sundance line jets have little or no moving parts making them more robust.

4. It was observed that the quality control of the sundance product was tighter than the quality control of the jacuzzi product, but that was years ago and presumably things have "normalized" since then.

Questions I would ask for each tub to help figure out the engineering side of it:

1. What kind of ozonator is available on the jacuzzi and the sundance.  My guess is the sundance has a "better" one, but I don't know for sure.

2. What is the replacement schedule and cost of the filters for each tub?

3. What is the *actual* surface area of filtration for each tub from the filters. Trust me, it seems like a bell/whistle but when you go outside after a party and see gunky water (because ozonation/filtration system is less powerful) it's still a PITA.

4. My personal observation of the jacuzzi is (among other things) it did not pass the kick-the-tire test -- too many things seemed either flimsy or trouble-spots over the years. The bigger jacuzzi we tested had a flat waterfall thing which looks like some child tried to sit on it and it was cracked and very broken looking. Make sure you are comfortable that your tub will put up with the kind of unintentional abuse you, your family, and your friends will inflict upon it.  It is a hard to quantify measure, but the tub should feel sturdy to you.

-Ed

« Last Edit: September 08, 2005, 10:15:08 am by ebirrane »

Rayman

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Re: Question for the pros
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2005, 10:56:33 am »
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the circulation pump on the 880 Series moves 35 gallons per minute as opposed to 5-7 gallons per minute in everyone elses(including Jacuzzi). 50000 gallons filtered per day versus 10000 gallons per day.
 !!!


This statement is not true, Beachcomber has 27 GPM =38880 gallons per day on their circ pump(This is just a comment about this fact)  Pick the tub you feel right in. No one seems to have anything negative to say about either brand.

Ray
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golferm

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Re: Question for the pros
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2005, 11:15:51 am »
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Sundance and Jacuzzi supposedly come off the same line and have similar warranties.  In my quest for a spa, tripped over the J365.  Still have to wet test, but why the apparent preference for Sundance?  What makes it so superior?  The price differential, at least with essentially no haggling, is staggering, not to mention the folks at Jacuzzi were a lot nicer than the Sundance folks.  I know the dealer is irrelevant to the hot tub quality, but we're talking a substantial price difference between the J365 and the Optima.  Other general comments or knowledge of general Jacuzzi quality also appeciated, first hand preferred.  That said, until a wet test proves otherwise, Arctic still reigns first for comfort, but they too are at substantial price disadvantage vs the Jacuzzi.



Hey stlrex,  I do own a J-355 Jacuzzi, so I'll give some first hand knowledge here.  Yes, I do believe that Jacuzzi slightly less in overall quality and bells and whistles to Sundance, however, they do have their own unique jets.  I do rank Jacuzzi way ahead of Sundance's 780 line (Bahia, Cayman, Lagunas, etc.)  Jacuzzi has tubs that are much more full featured than that.  So that being said, realistically, Jacuzzi is just a notch lower than the 880 line of Sundance and higher than the 780 line.  IMHO.   The filtering is not an issue to me.  I have incredible clear water, using their inline dispenser system and Bromine pucks.

Jacuzzi J-355's and up all have the LCD control panel, almost identical to Sundance.

We have had a Jacuzzi product for almost 1 year now, with no troubles with jets, waterfalls or other issues.  

And if we did, the Jacuzzi dealer has bent over backwards with little things, so I'm sure he be there for us.

My humble two cents....

Mark
« Last Edit: September 08, 2005, 11:17:12 am by golferm »

orlandoguy

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Re: Question for the pros
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2005, 04:42:09 pm »
I can speak from Orlando regarding Jacuzzi and say that the service for small things like a radio issue and an air switch has been superior as well as the dealer's offer to sell me any accessories at his cost.

As far as the technical stuff, what are the moving parts that are being referred to, and why are people with the moto massage in their tubs that sit on wood bases getting into this discussion?  As far as i know, the only "moving" parts are the jets that move from the water propulsion.  Also, two pumps driving these jets make plenty of force.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2005, 04:42:50 pm by orlandoguy »

stl-rex

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Re: Question for the pros
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2005, 04:53:36 pm »
Many thanks for comments.  Sundance was 9K plus on the Optima unless I wanted to take a "scratch and dent" whereas Jacuzzi was just over 7K all inclusive (steps, lift, chems, ozone etc).  I didn't see that much difference between the two.  The comment on the big pumps on connections designed for smaller pumps gives me pause and they glue their connections, not clamp them like Sundance, but it's definitely worth a wet test in my mind.  Sundance touts ISO as a sales gimmick, but Jacuzzi is ISO also.  
« Last Edit: September 08, 2005, 04:56:31 pm by rexspent »

ebirrane

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Re: Question for the pros
« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2005, 11:01:57 pm »
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As far as the technical stuff, what are the moving parts that are being referred to, and why are people with the moto massage in their tubs that sit on wood bases getting into this discussion?


Because anyone can point out technical discussions, regardless of whether they have the much better moto-massage and completely sealed 20-year proven pressure treated base or not.  

I'm assuming that answers your question. If you had a different point, I missed it.  Well, that and some of us actually looked at, researched, and wet-tested jacuzzi tubs before running away from them. 8)

-Ed

« Last Edit: September 08, 2005, 11:02:53 pm by ebirrane »

orlandoguy

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Re: Question for the pros
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2005, 08:40:01 am »
Thanks.  The explanation was good, but the geek part in the signature was all that was necessary. ;D


Rayman

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Re: Question for the pros
« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2005, 10:37:21 am »
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.  Sundance touts ISO as a sales gimmick, but Jacuzzi is ISO also.  


ISO is just a binder filled with paper controlling all aspects of the manufacturing process to meet a predetermined expectation.  If the company sets an expectation of a 50% failure rate and always meet it then they keep their ISO certificate.  ISO should not sell a product IMHO.

Ray
« Last Edit: September 09, 2005, 10:38:49 am by rayman »
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stl-rex

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Re: Question for the pros
« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2005, 11:01:33 am »
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ISO is just a binder filled with paper controlling all aspects of the manufacturing process to meet a predetermined expectation.  If the company sets an expectation of a 50% failure rate and always meet it then they keep their ISO certificate.  ISO should not sell a product IMHO.

Ray



Yep - if you build it wrong the same way everytime, you're ISO ;D

« Last Edit: September 09, 2005, 11:01:55 am by rexspent »

Spatech_tuo

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Re: Question for the pros
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2005, 11:13:27 am »
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ISO is just a binder filled with paper controlling all aspects of the manufacturing process to meet a predetermined expectation.  If the company sets an expectation of a 50% failure rate and always meet it then they keep their ISO certificate.  ISO should not sell a product IMHO.

Ray


Don't be so quick to knock ISO. Have you ever tried to get a part for a fairly new spa and it's a scramble to figure out what you need? Sometimes you go to get a part from a spa maker and it's a crapshoot as to whether you get the right part as in a given year they may have made the spa 20 different ways and with different parts each month. Some spa makers have about 50 million versions when you look at all the molds and jet options and it's a nightmare. The controls an ISO company has are good for keeping things in line and people accountable. That DOES lead to some degree of improved quality control. It may not affect design much and I'm not saying it should sway someone's buying decision to any large degree. While it may not be equal to the weight the salesman gives it I'd say it is more than a piece of paper.  
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Soakin

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Re: Question for the pros
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2005, 11:40:07 am »
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Don't be so quick to knock ISO... The controls an ISO company has are good for keeping things in line and people accountable. That DOES lead to some degree of improved quality control. It may not affect design much and I'm not saying it should sway someone's buying decision to any large degree. While it may not be equal to the weight the salesman gives it I'd say it is more than a piece of paper.  
I agree.  It takes a lot of effort to obtain ISO certification.  A company that doesn't care about quality is not going to put in the time and effort it takes to standardize their process and get certified.

Rayman

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Re: Question for the pros
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2005, 11:41:03 am »
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Don't be so quick to knock ISO. Have you ever tried to get a part for a fairly new spa and it's a scramble to figure out what you need? Sometimes you go to get a part from a spa maker and it's a crapshoot as to whether you get the right part as in a given year they may have made the spa 20 different ways and with different parts each month. Some spa makers have about 50 million versions when you look at all the molds and jet options and it's a nightmare. The controls an ISO company has are good for keeping things in line and people accountable. That DOES lead to some degree of improved quality control. It may not affect design much and I'm not saying it should sway someone's buying decision to any large degree. While it may not be equal to the weight the salesman gives it I'd say it is more than a piece of paper.  


All I am saying is that ISO doesn't mean quality, it means quality control.  If you put in your ISO document that there is no control sheet for parts older than 1 year and less than 6 months and the average days out to source such part is 90 days witha 50% failure rate on finding it.....then you are ISO.

ray
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stl-rex

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Re: Question for the pros
« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2005, 01:27:48 pm »
ISO can be viewed as a plus, but knowing what it means and having worked at least one place that was ISO (and I still have yet to figure out how they received and kept it), it means little to me when the salesperson says we're better than so-and-so because we're ISO.

Rayman

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Re: Question for the pros
« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2005, 05:58:17 pm »
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ISO can be viewed as a plus, but knowing what it means and having worked at least one place that was ISO (and I still have yet to figure out how they received and kept it), it means little to me when the salesperson says we're better than so-and-so because we're ISO.


Ditto

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Re: Question for the pros
« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2005, 05:58:17 pm »

 

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