Help with electrical and city inspector

[TD]

I had a 2004 Sweetwater Bahia (floor model) installed 2 months ago. The city inspector came out today to do the inspection for the deck and electrical. The tub was installed by the dealer as per Sundance instructions, appropriate wire, 2 hots and a ground, 50 Amp GFI (which  tests ok every 2 weks) in a disconnect box, more than 5 feet from tub, etc.  The inspector says he won't ok the electrical until there  is an independent ground installed from a ground rod to lugs on the spa's motors. The dealer says he has never heard of this being necessary, and a call to Sundance said the motors are grounded to the circuit board then grounded to the disconnect and additional grounding is not necessary. My disconnect is grounded, to the plumbing of my 37 year-old home, and to a ground rod driven into the soil. Has anyone with experience with Sundance installs or others ever heard of anything like this? I'm concerned about tampering with wiring which is other than what is recommended by the manufacturer. Thanks.

[mjb]

We had the same issue with one of our local electrical inspectors.  I had Sundance send me some info from UL (Underwriters Laboratory)
Per section 14.2 "For other than a heater or a current collector, electrical components under the skirt of a spa that are connected by a jacketed flexible cord may use the grounding conductor in the flexible cord for bonding."
In simple terms, the power cord that connects the motors to the control/command center serves as the ground/bond.
Mike

[Dr. Spaâ„¢ Ret.]

TD, your inspector is an IDIOT and is potentially endangering your life. The "lug" he's speaking of is for BONDING, NOT grounding.

Bonding and grounding are 2 different things (notice how they're spelled differently?). Bonding is the interconnection of metal parts to establish electrical continuity. Grounding means connected to earth or a conducting body that acts in place of earth.

If you bond the equipment through a grounding rod you run the risk of being electrocuted by voltage traveling down through the grounding rod and through you to a more solid ground (like the proper ground running back to the electricasl panel). A grounding rod is not necessarily a solid ground. In fact, as summer progresses, the the DIRT it's driven into becomes drier and drier, it becomes less and less of a ground.

According to the NEC;
"Bonding is the permanent joining of metallic parts to form an electrically conductive path that ensures electrical continuity and the capacity to conduct safely any current likely to be imposed. On the other hand, a ground is a conducting connection, whether intentional or accidental, between an electrical circuit or equipment and the earth or to some conducting body that serves in place of the earth."

[leaky]

Dr.,

It's funny how these threads can run in parellel....

I'm talking about pretty much the same issues.  I have run three wire plus ground from a pull box over to where it will enter the tub.  It now appears that I will have to replace the box with a 60 amp GFCI box, as I can't find one that can be inserted into my main panel.  Regardless, after looking at the manual on line, it says that I need to connect a solid copper line from the bonding lugs on the spa box to a metal fence post, down spout, etc.  Is this necessary?  If so, can I attach to either a water spigot or a natural gas line that dive into the slab next to my electrical PVC?

[Dr. Spaâ„¢ Ret.]

Any possibility it says to connect to these only if within 5 feet?

[TD]

Dr. Spa, the exact phrase entered my mind when he said I needed the extra wiring. Guess I'll find out more tomorrow.

[drprwnap]

Help! I've been following this thread and becoming more and more confused / concerned.  The manual for my Epic states:
"A pressure wire connector is located on the exterior of the contorl box.  The pressure wire connector should be bonded with at least #8 AWG copper wire to any metal ladder, metal water pipe, common bonding grid (reinforced concrete slab, ground plate beneath the spa), or any other metal within 5' of the spa."  My problem is I won't have any metal within 5' of the spa.  What shoud I do???  Is this an ABSOLUTE must???
Thanks in advance!

drprwnap  

[leaky]

Drprwnap,

I won't either.  Hopefully the experts can chime in on this.  My spa will be on a 4" slab, essentially standing alone.  I would sure like to finalize my requirements before it arrives......

[drprwnap]

I hear ya, leaky.  I'm going to complete my deck expansion this weekend (hopefully) and want to have all my wiring run so I can just hook up the tub when it arrives!  

[tonyp]

Help! I've been following this thread and becoming more and more confused / concerned.  The manual for my Epic states:
"A pressure wire connector is located on the exterior of the contorl box.  The pressure wire connector should be bonded with at least #8 AWG copper wire to any metal ladder, metal water pipe, common bonding grid (reinforced concrete slab, ground plate beneath the spa), or any other metal within 5' of the spa."  My problem is I won't have any metal within 5' of the spa.  What shoud I do???  Is this an ABSOLUTE must???
Thanks in advance!

drprwnap  

It's a must to bond those items to the spa if they exist.  If there are no such items within 5 ft. you're OK.

[leaky]

So I can cloud the issue further, how about a BBQ island?  The grill is stainless, as are the doors and internal structure.  It is stucco over wonderboard, with ceramic tile.  It WILL be within 5 feet, but does this qualify as something to "bond" to?

[tony]

So much for permits and inspections.

[drprwnap]

Lets make it more cloudy-- How about an aluminum downspout?

ps. it's enitirely above ground!

[TD]

To wrap this up, the inspector just called and stated he is going to approve the installation as is. He did say that all motors need to be grounded per NEC section 430, and that if I open the spa up in the future I should run the extra wire.

I think I'll trust Sundance on this one.

[Dr. Spaâ„¢ Ret.]

Somthing to ponder.......................  ............... Statistics show the average building inspector used to be a licensed contractor, that went bankrupt.

I had an inspector once insist I bond the metal window screen in a vinyl window.. 10' from the spa

I've had inspector insist on the bonding wire terminating at a ground rod. This is how I came to learn about and understand more on the differences of grounding and bonding (so far I've had 2 customers that felt small shocks from improper bonding to a ground rod, insisted upon by inspectors).

I did an installation once and the inspector told me I had to change something. Changed it, called for a reinspection, the first inspector was on vacation, the inspector demanded I change it back to the way I originally had it. Called for another reinspection, the first inspector was back from vacation. HE WAS SCREAMING AT ME. Made the change, oops, second inspector came this time and MAD did he scream louder. Thankfully the homeowner witnessed all of this and said "screw the building department burn the permit, here's your check".

The NEC is only a "recommendation" and cities and/or counties can do whatever they want. Case in point, San Francisco. They've written their own building codes and just about every one differs from the national codes.