Author Topic: SD Maxxus electrical cable entrance (Read 4587 times)

leesweet · « **on:** August 11, 2005, 03:18:54 pm »

I think I need a SD dealer that knows about how SD spas are fed.

My dealer sent me off to call SD yesterday, and they've not called back yet. So, I thought I'd ask the experts here for confirmation.

Here's the scoop. While our Max is on order (more details later... I just realized reading another thread that I'd been remiss in telling the whole saga, my bad!), we've gotten the concrete and power in.

Well, the electrician put a 60A breaker in the panel, ran 6-3 cable to the disconnect box near where the spa will go, put the 60A GFCI there, and left about 10' of cable for connecting to the spa.

Here's the problem. The cable is this flat one-piece, about 1/2" by 1 1/2" stuff. I think the SD spas have a round entryway for the power cable, right? The SD pre-install manual says nothing that specifies exactly what shape the cable should be.

And, this stuff can't be bent, if you wanted to.

So, I assume you can't feed this flat cable into the port on the side of the Max. What kind of cable do I tell the electrician to come back and put in?

And, in general, shouldn't the pre-install guide (which should tell you everything to get ready without a spa to look at, right?) say that the cable (in total) has to be round and/or less that 1" or whatever in size? All it really says, I believe, is THHN wire, which is 'heavy insulated for conduit', which we aren't even using (the conduit). Nothing about the entrance way to the inside of the spa. Perhaps they assume you are using conduit, and thus just the three 'little wires' have to make it inside? Okay, if so, but that's not stated that I can see, either, except from the comment on the THHN wire requirement.

So, perhaps we have to use, what, leak-tite conduit in order to have separate wires inside for the last part from the disconnect to the spa? Not a problem if that's the answer!

Thanks! (Last thing I want is for the dealer to show up and for the power not to fit!)

Hot Tub Forum · « **on:** August 11, 2005, 03:18:54 pm »

SerjicalStrike · « **Reply #1 on:** August 11, 2005, 04:02:44 pm »

The electrical access hole is really just a hole with a chinese finger trap type piece of plastic in it. Your wire should fit in there just fine. If you have any doubts, you can go to the dealer and measure the opening. Or, if it is too small, the electricina can just use a hole saw and make a bigger one.

leesweet · « **Reply #2 on:** August 11, 2005, 04:14:34 pm »

Hm, it's that large and easy? I was under the impression it had a metal entrance or something.

The dealer took a look while I was on the phone and thought it was about an inch wide, but didn't say she thought it was easily enlargable. If so, not a problem... (I'd caulk it up later to keep bugs and other things out, of course...)

If it's that needed, I'm worried about nothing, as usual!

Thanks much!

Brewman · « **Reply #3 on:** August 11, 2005, 04:29:27 pm »

You should be able to fit the flat cable thru the gromet, but the question is more what you should do vs what you can do.
I doubt it's allowable to run that romex from your disconnect to your spa without it being inside some type of conduit. My installation (Optima- same as your MAX) has 3/4" schedule 80 PVC running from the disconnect to a few feet from the spa, then I transition to 3/4" flexible, watertight conduit from there, thru the gromet in the spa side, and all the way to the knockout on the electrical box inside the service panel of the spa.
Except I didn't use romex cable (wasn't allowed by my authority) but individual 6 gauge copper THHN/THWN wires inside the conduit.
You might want to check with your local electrician,
to see what's required by code, and pop onto Sundance's website and take a peek at the proper owners manual for your spa to get some ideas.

Brewman

leesweet · « **Reply #4 on:** August 11, 2005, 05:21:09 pm »

Er, I've read the SD Pre-install and the 'real' SD 880 Manual... do you mean 'ideas' for this or in general about placement and other factors? There isn't much about the hookup, which is why I started this thread in the first place.

As for the leaving the 'cable' by itself from the disconnect, I specifically asked him that, and he said it was code and fine. I didn't think so and haven't a clue. I expected at least leaktite flex conduit if not something more rigid.

Brewman, I don't understand your comment 'ask your local electrician what's allowed by code'. He is the one that installed this last Monday, I didn't do this myself.

He sure knows it's for a hot tub, and he said it was all code. I even gave him the pages from the SD Pre-install guide, even though all that says is 'two hot, no neutral, #6'.

Now, note that this cable is on the side of the spa that will be next to a deck, and the cable is to be about five feet on the ground across concrete and mulch where people will not be walking (because it's under a second story deck). It's placed there on purpose. I don't know if that entered into his answer or not. I don't know if the 'strength' of the cable enters into it or not. This stuff is really tough plastic coated cable, and it took him about five minutes to strip it at the breaker box end in order to connect it there. So, all in all, I'm a bit confused.

Brewman · « **Reply #5 on:** August 11, 2005, 07:24:57 pm »

And I'm probably just confusing you more. I'll try and elaborate.

Hopefully your electrician is licensed, obtained the correct permits, and is familiar with the rules in your area. Whatever authority that serves you can let you know if they allow the type of connection that your electrician is proposing. If they do, and if that's the rule in your area, then the romex cable you have will certainly fit thru the gromet on your spa.
Also, getting any required inspections done by your city or whoever does them, will give you an unbiased opinion that your wiring meets (or doesn't meet) code.

Personally, I wouldn't want a bare cable like that, but it's a moot point for me since I am bound by the electrical authority in my area, which won't even allow romex to be used to feed from a disconnect to a spa. I had to use individual unsheathed wires, which cannot be unprotected- they must be in a conduit of some sort.

The electrical inspector in your area has final say on what works and what does not. If they say OK, then I'd be satisfied. The only other recourse you have is to trust your electrician knows what they are doing.

Brewman

leesweet · « **Reply #6 on:** August 12, 2005, 01:12:16 pm »

Yeah, I think we both agree.

He lives in the county and even the development, and does a lot of work here, so I think he knows the local codes. I need to take a look at the cable, and call the inspector, to be sure, though. Like you, I'm suspicious of that cable, although it is very tough stuff. (It's a lot tougher than plain romex.)

I may have him replace it with leaktite-sort of stuff anyway. Thanks for the comments!

c00ter · « **Reply #7 on:** August 12, 2005, 04:40:27 pm »

I'm also getting the cement and electrical ready for my Maxxus. My question is, can the electrical be brought in under the spa, not through its side? This seems it would be a cleaner look then through the side.

Thanks in advance for any help

Karl

Brewman · « **Reply #8 on:** August 12, 2005, 05:50:06 pm »

Should be able to do that. You just need to know the footprint of the spa and exactly where you intend to place it.
Brewman

sparky · « **Reply #9 on:** August 12, 2005, 10:57:02 pm »

if

?you are allowed to use romex in your area you need a romex connector to enter the controll box. i would not worry about it . you have an electrician ,let him finish the job.me personnally. i would use sealtight.so it is water proof. keep in mind you can only use 6 feet per the code.
good luck

mxw128 · « **Reply #10 on:** August 13, 2005, 09:49:12 am »

Lee, I would be a little bit careful on what your electrician is "willing" to do for you. Now I'm not an electrician, but I do most of my own work and the code in our area just states that we follow the NEC (Nat. Elect. Code). I had purchased 6/3 cable to wire my spa (which I thought would be OK )and was ready to just do the job when I decided just to see how much an electrician wanted to do it for me (I'm getting lazy I guess ;-) ) Anyway, he came in and gave me a price to run the cable I had bought (and showed him) and we talked a bit about the install etc. Being a little frugal, I decided I would do the job myself and gave a quick call to the county insepctor's office to discuss my interpretation of the NEC and to make sure I wouldn't have any code issues. Turns out they wouldn't allow the cable to be used, because you're not allowed to run romex type cable in conduit, it has to be single conductor. My only point is that the electrician was more than willing to wire the job using the cable which would have caused me a probelm when the inspector showed up. It may have been a difference of interpretation of the code, however when push comes to shove, the County inspecter is the one who had to approve the work and close the permit.

It sound like he used 6/3 UF cable which is fine for outdoor installation, but just my $.02 here : In your case, (if it was me) I would recommend using 3/4" liquidtite flex conduit into your spa. (But as sparky stated before, no more than 6 ft per the NEC). IMHO, it provides for a more finished looking connection as well as better durability and protection from water entry.

Anyway, like I said before just my 2 cents.

leesweet · « **Reply #11 on:** August 13, 2005, 10:34:11 am »

Thanks, folks! I'd gathered all that from the other comments hereabouts, but he "said" it was all code, and you assume he knows what he's talking about.

Well, you never know.

Loudoun County, VA uses NEC, but I'm not sure which. I'll check which one, and check that and call the inspector's office and describe exactly what I have in place.

Thanks again!

mxw128 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 13, 2005, 10:54:17 am »

Lee... I'm in Loudoun Cty VA too!! (South Riding) Hey man good luck! I spoke to the chief inspector, a guy by the name of Joe Legard. The inspector told me that I had to run conduit all the way from the disconnect to the service panel as well as from the disconnect to the tub. I did some research and asking around and apparently this is a topic of some disagreement amoung the "community" It comes down to an interpretation of the NEC and how the county inspectors view it. (for example he asked me if there was a light in the tub. I said sure, but the tub is a packaged unit. I think he is looking at from the point of view of seperate light in a pool) I was a little miffed because it was a bit of a hassle, but in the end I just caved in and did it the way they said they wanted to see it. I'll let you know how the inspection goes! Post back and let me know what they tell you.

~M

Brewman · « **Reply #13 on:** August 13, 2005, 01:22:53 pm »

I got the same when I wired my spa. Whatever the local authority say, is what goes. The code is their guideline, but it's very open to interpretation.
Brewman

sparky · « **Reply #14 on:** August 13, 2005, 03:24:13 pm »

it doesnt hurt to ask the inspector . the only fool proof way is to pipe it with pvc from the panel. use # 6 thhn 2 colors a white and a green. dont forget the disconnect at 5 to 10 feet from sidewall. 20 years with not one failure.
p.s. there is only one code, it all depends on the inspectors interpretation.again have a electricain finish the job the right way...life is too short to waste it on a few dollars

Hot Tub Forum · « **Reply #14 on:** August 13, 2005, 03:24:13 pm »

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