Wet Test for a Newbie ??

[Chas]

Ok�back to the spa issue  
Again, thanks so much to everyone who helped with my confusion.  I will still continue reading this forum but this time for other spa related info like water chemicals, water temps and of course where to find the rubber duckies.  
 ... my spa won't be delivered till July 14

Congratulations! I'm sure you will love your new tub, I know the waiting can be hard.

May you soak long and prosper!

[wmccall]

I have to keep in mind that many dealers say 3% or less ever even ask to wet test.

I doubt that dealers have to deal with the "lookey-lous" that real Estate agents do on Open House Day.

I never wet tested, because I thought I'd been in several tubs and knew what I wanted.  I ended up with a tub that is great for us, but when we go to replace it I will definitely wet test.

The one thing I don't like to hear that people have said dealers will say is, you can wet test this tub, its close enough. (WRONG!)

I've heard of "This is the same model with out the lounger"

Or  This is the same model, but the 8' one instead of the 7' one.

[jsimo7]

J MCD why the bad feelings toward customers who want to make a informed decision. I know the spa business is a tough business maybe it is time to change careers. You may find other careers have many different things you dislike also.  Thats why it is called work!!

[wmccall]

J MCD why the bad feelings toward customers who want to make a informed decision.

I know I tend to post when having a bad day  
I know the next time I buy, and wet test, I'll take all points into  consideration.  If I buy (no intentions right now) my dealer will know I'm serious and will fill any tub I want. If I go to a different dealer,  I'll work with them as I know as much as I love having a spa, I could go a week or more without one if needed. I'd be sure they knew I was a serious buyer.  If they didn't have the model I wanted available, I'd say, call me when you do. This cost Masterspa a sale as they didn't ever call me back.

[J._McD]

So as to not be misunderstood, especially by new posters, as you become familiar with this board, you will find a wealth of knowledge freely given by all to be extremely useful to aid you in your shopping ventures.  Some information and tips that are good, some very good, some not so good, some off the wall and some from far out in left field, even some that are bald face mis-leading.  

The only thing at risk here is money and not your life, well maybe.  The reason I say this is because, I am a touring motorcycle enthusiast and recently read an article detailing an accident report of someone where both riders were killed, a husband and wife whom we had met during our travels.  The accident reports confirmed the specific cause of the accident specifically lead to “mis-matched” front and back tires, one radial bias and the other a glass bias tire of a different manufacturer that led to the instability of the cycle under certain road conditions which directly contrributed to the accident of the lone cycle.  The tires were recently put on the cycle by a dealer.  The article continued to explain, the tires were put on by the installer at the instance of the customer, who’s information was predicated upon research the cyclist had gleaned from the internet.  The dealer actually tried to dissuade him, but his warning was not heeded.  The cyclist was firmly convinced by his research and the dealer was being sued.  The article just makes you think.

We can all be smart and shrewd, but the information that we collect and rely on can be misleading and screw up our decision making prowess.  Buying a spa IS a serious venture as it includes SERIOUS AMOUNTS OF MONEY representing a one time expenditure that is going to last 15 to 20 years.  It amazes me some people buy 240 volt spas that are NOT even certified to be electrically safe or that have burned the back of the house down.  I will leave that for another thread.

I am not opposed to wet testing in any remote way.  We encourage it.  And, I have kissed enough customers where the sun does not shine over my 22 years in this business.  We didn’t have the internet back then, but today, it is the information hi-way.

IMOHO, the single most important resource of information that you can glean information from is the dealer, and in the end, he is the most important thing you pay for.  I see the dealer to be one of the most important measurement of analysis.  However, all of the focus and all of the analysis during the shopping process seems to relate to product, price and the fear of making the wrong decision.

The best advice given here on this board is to WET TEST and dealers are not trusted.  While it is very important how it fits, whether you float, and obtaining the desired results, which can be best evaluated during a water test.  The wet test is important, but, is it 10% or 20% of the decision making process, or is it 80% of the decision making process or, is it manufacturer, or price point?

In a best case scenario, dealers should have all of their models represented, one dry to sit in and there should be 16 private environments to wet test.  We have long desired to do that for the benefit of the shopper.  We would have to double the size of the store, increase our electric consumption by $20 to $30 a month by 14 more spas and have a parade of bodies passing through some of which would actually increase sales.  But, what comes first, the chicken or the egg?  Or in this case, the money to afford expansion or relocation and the increased cost of business and yet, still maintain quality products, superior and excellent service and low prices that are never low enough for the consumer who is compelled to walk out the door to shop and wet test others until they have been beaten into submission.  How many will you wet test?

As you can imagine, trying to please ALL of the people, ALL OF THE TIME is virtually impossible. it is important to have a comprehensive understanding of ALL of the factors related to the decision and their respective level or degree of importance.  Would anyone care to prepare a list of priorities from MOST important to least important but still very important.

Now, if you will excuse me, I need to call JA for a good Dr. and get some new meds.  

[drewstar]

This may sound completey stupid, but In the spirit of brain storming, and not being afraid to be called an idoit....

Wet testing tubs....what's the big deal about this? Is it the trouble to set the tub up,  the cost of the water? Heating it?

IF that's the case, I could image a hot tub dealer having oh a 500 gallon tank of balanced, heated water  available with a high speed pump always ready.

YOu want to wet test that one? Ok, give me 10 minutes. "hey jimbo, fill tub #5.  Any tub at any time could be ready to go in minutes.

After the test, end of the day. pump back to the holding tank.

[J._McD]

I think that is a great idea and one that has been considered.  

However, I too am controlled by my better half, or should I say my good conscience control.  In Her Opinion, people would consider them "used spas" and want them to be discounted, and she raises the issues of liability of which I can not explain away to her satisfaction.  

Well, yes, of course we are insured, and we are competent in what we do as well, but there have been some very serious health issues not to mention the health department and dealing with the "public consumer" in a retail setting and not a public bathing business.  

Drew, how would you like me to dump the community 500 gallon water tank into the spa for you and your wife to wet test? :-/

This is not really a simple issue as shoppers may perceive it to be.  There were several deaths attributed to legionnaires disease at a tent sale in the Carolina's and another unfortunate experience in the Netherlands attributed to improper sanitation in Hot Tubs.  I would feel compelled to be there all hours to cover my backside to be sure stringent guidlines were adhered to.

Remember, we are dealing with sanitary conditions in a selling environment.  Will all sellers pay stringent attention to the water or the sales.  Somebody better be paying attention to proper water chemistry and proper sanitation as required by the health department.  

I think the 3% of water testers mentioned is manageable, even if it was 10 to 15% but, to what limit should we really encourage the expansion to what point before we start reading the headlines again. :-/

[obi wan]

i wont quote the whole post from j._mcd -to much space...
in a nut shell heres my view....
i think the wet test is 50-70% of the decision. the tub will be the tub you have for the next 10-15 years. dealers may come and go, hell, the manufacturer could go out of business, but you still have the tub. does it fit me and my needs? thats the most important decision. i think thats why there are so many boards like this.
price and dealer IMHO roughly tie. the dealer is very important, and can be a wealth of info both at the point of sale and during ownership, BUT if i cant afford the $9k tub, then its all a mute point. i personally bought from a dealer that has carried watkins products for 19 years, been in biz for over 26 yrs themselves, and they have 4 stores with in 100 miles (2 local).
what dd/do i want to see in a dealer? i was in several good ones. the going theme seemed to be anywhere from 10-25 tubs on display, with a few of the most popular filled. jaccuzzi, caqldera, HS, marquis, and sundance all offered to fill any spa they had with in a day or two and set up appts with the wife and i to come back and test the tub in question. even outside normal hrs. i would never expect any dealer to keep ALL tubs filled, thats a waste of time and chems.
i dont expect any one to kiss my #$#% either. give me info that will help me make a decision, and answer my questions.
i dont agree than the general theme of this board is that dealers are not to be trusted. most info says wet test and find a dealer you feel good about,i.e. polite, knowledgable, helpful, etc most of the posts from new shoppers say something like i was quoted  $"x" for "x" spa. is this a good price, good tub, etc?.
if i went shopping for a fur coat today, i dont know squat about fur coat prices. is $10k the going rate? $50k? i would ask the same type of questions on a whats-the-best-fur-coat site(is there such a site?? )
you seem to be a little high stressed and very defensive about your profession. do you get a lot of customers that feel they are paying to much?? am i out of the norm? how do the #;s break down, roughly. are most peolpe coming in the door wasting time, or serious shoppers?80% / 20%..... 60% / 40%?
there are some real "winners" in the sales profession in most industries. most of the one i met in the spa biz were very nice and helpful. only had a couple bad times, and 1 of those was even funny.

[drewstar]

TO answer the specific question of what was important to me/priority

1) Price. I had a certain budget set and would not exceed that.   No deal if  I went over my budget.  The tub salesman could be Jesus H. Christ and have features that rivaled several adult movies I've seen, but if it was over my budget I wasn't going to buy.

2) of equal importance was quality. If I couldn't get a quality product that also offered superor electrical and heating costs I wasn't going to buy.

3) Dealer.  Meeting the above criteria  we visited dealers who had tubs that met our needs.  Dealer integrity,  and service  was measured. this brought us to 2 dealers, each with a few tubs that met our needs.

4) Given we could meet the above criteria, the next was most tub for the money. I had no size or space restrictions and wanted to have the best entertaining tub I could get for the dollar. It's here that we do trade offs of # of jets, water falls, seating size, bells & whistles and investigated the indvidual dealers reputations, product ratings and wieghed servive and conveince between the tubs that made it to this stage.

5) This brought us to 2 or 3 tubs. Wet tested for comfort .



So yea, J-McD is right (assuming a dedicated buyer, not a lookie-loo) the wet test was at the end of our process. After all I wasn't going to wet test a tub I couldn't afford,  or didn't think was a quality product.

Price
Quality
Dealer
Features
Wet Test.

However, this doesn't cover final negotiations on price and signing the deal. that's a diiferent topic. The above is only what brought me to the tub i chose.

[msgreek]

Good day to everyone.
    Reading the posts within this thread is bringing back memories of a recent auto purchase.  I was in the market for an exotic car.  Since the car is very high $$$ the dealer nearest my house would not let me test-drive the actual model I wanted.  He had the non-turbo model for test drive but not the actual car.  Of course I drove the extra 50 miles to another dealer who would allow me to test-drive the model I wanted.  After driving the car a few miles I knew it was the model I would purchase.  The essence of this little story is that part of running a successful business is not only to know what the consumer wants but also a little common sense.  Perhaps a spa is not the same $$$ as a vehicle but it is in essence a possession for therapeutic reasoning or merely another toy.  Whatever the case may be the consumer has full right not only to be selective but also to purchase at a fair market value.  For this reasoning we have free enterprise in the U.S.
    My burning question for the day is why would a consumer be a “spa lookey-lous”.  Does a spa dealer or sales staff really think a consumer does the ‘spa dealership tour’ just to have a free soak in a spa?  I would hope to think 99.9% of wet-test consumers are in the market to purchase and NOT because they are bored with nothing else better to do.
    It is written by a user in this thread, “the dealer, and in the end, he is the most important thing you pay for.  I see the dealer to be one of the most important measurement of analysis”.  Unfortunately, I strongly disagree with this thought simply because a specific spa manufacture and its sales staff are representing their line of product to sell.  Why would a SunDance salesperson give me positive information on HotSprings or vise versa?  Unfortunately, it is the consumer’s responsibility to do their homework then attempt the quest for their given selection(s).  
    Wet-testing is a definite “MUST”.  Although some sales staff will believe sitting in a dry spa will give you the feel for the design and function it is not the entire feel for the model.  My sales rep told me the 385 might be a little to long for me but was not upset when I requested the wet-test.  After prepping the unit she told me how to benefit from the jets and their proximately.  In essence she allowed the quality of the spa to sell itself.  Excellent sells strategy!  
    Nevertheless, in order of significance the most important factors in my spa search were:
1.      Performance
2.      Quality
3.      Wet-Test
4.      Price
5.      How many rubber-duckies were included in the package!  
Until later
p.s…..13 days till delivery and counting the hours !

[J._McD]

i wont quote the whole post from j._mcd -to much space...
in a nut shell heres my view....

you seem to be a little high stressed and very defensive about your profession. do you get a lot of customers that feel they are paying to much?? am i out of the norm? how do the #;s break down, roughly. are most peolpe coming in the door wasting time, or serious shoppers?80% / 20%..... 60% / 40%?
there are some real "winners" in the sales profession in most industries. most of the one i met in the spa biz were very nice and helpful. only had a couple bad times, and 1 of those was even funny.

I am a little more stressed about mis-leading or mis-information that people rely on from the internet.

I sell in the upper price range of quality represented in the industry and we deal with a lot of people who get sticker shock    when they realize spa cost more than 3 to 4 thousand dollars that they saw at Sam's or other big box stores.  Then there is also the warehouse or want ad seller selling $9,000 spas for $4,795 that they bought for $2,000.

People just don't know what to expect or who to trust.  We deal with it every day.  From a dealers perspective, the internet and big boxes set the expectation of the shopping consumer who want to "negotiate" what he thinks he should pay and the sellers deal with their dissappointment when they come in and judge us as "overpriced".

You get what you pay for, and everybody still tries to get it cheaper, it's human nature.

[obi wan]

"You get what you pay for, and everybody still tries to get it cheaper, it's human nature."

i couldn't agree more. that was the whole point of my TV comparison. $250-600 is a large spread. for more $ you get more features, better picture quality, etc....

just like a spa.....
they run from $4k up to $12k (even a little more) and the differences are the same..more features, better quality, etc

i stated my search for a replacement tub with a common thought.... saw them at sams for $3-5k. took me about a month to go to 5-7k range, and wound up spending 8k.
i wanted high quality and dealer support. after looking at several dealers, i realized that to get what i wanted was going to be more than $3500.
you cant buy a new bmw for 14k either, but you can get a cavalier, or a hundai, etc, for that price. you do get what you pay for....

[msgreek]

If a consumer wants to compare or wants to believe a Costco, Sam's or Home Depot spa are equal to SunDance, Jacuzzi or ? then.... wow.  Someone needs higher education!  Not only is there a huge lack of quality and huge difference in price but try calling their 800 number when in time of service needs.  
And, for those consumers that respond to the newspaper ad for a $10,549 spa marked down to 2899.00 ?  Sometime I really wonder  

[leesweet]

Well, I, at least, *know* I'm going to spend in the neighborhood of $10,000 for a SD Max with the options I want, and I know what to look for to verify that the construction is as I expect it to be as I've heard here, and I know what to ask about about the options and installation and what's included, etc.  Such are the benefits of these boards!

And I know the dealer I hope to be handling my area soon has the Max ready for wet testing; but I can see in some areas some dealers would get a lot of lookie-loos... I dunno about if that's true in the Metro Washington area or not.

But, the more data you have is good to show the dealer that you *are* serious and just didn't see the sign on the way by and stop in for a hot soak!  

I can also see how it would be a crap shoot sometimes to have the right spas ready to go for wet test from the dealer's point of view, and perhaps you would need an advance appt to get 'that one' filled for you.  I also would expect *any* floor model, wet tested or not, to be sold as a floor model, since you've had all sorts of people clomping around in it.  (Heck, I'd rather have one that's been full of water, than one that's been constantly walked around in with you hope only socks/bare feet on!    )

As in all things, retail sales is a, um, hard thing.  

[tootall]

to read what J.McD has posted I can some what relate I am Self employed as an mortgage broker. To say to a coustomer oh a 3/1 adjustable is the same as a 15 year year fixed is 1 lazy 2. dis honest and showes poor coustomer care. I have some times worked days weeks and months to make coustomers happy. why Because they are making the biggest investment of a life time. To fill a spa with water and balance it with chems. to get a maybe purchace is a small investment. the dealer I bought my spa from told me sorry I don't have that modle in to wet test it. "But I made a call to another dealer if you want to wet test it. If you end up buying from him I understand" My family drove a hour one way to wet test and you know what I bought that model from the dealer that sent us there not the one who let us wet test. it boils down to coustomer satifaction period. Also IMOHO i will test drive cars to make sure its right for me and I will wet test spas to make sure its right for me. any one who will not let me see ya.