Optima Prices?

[velocity23]

Hey guys I was just wondering what the 2005 Sundance Optimas are going for? I am located in MD and the best deal I can get is about 9900.00 Plus taxes.
That includes steps, delivery, lift cover and stereo. Am I getting taken or is this a good deal. What should I expect to pay for it? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[Chris_H]

With stereo it isn't a bad deal.  Most dealers in my area (Philadelphia) get at least $10,000 for that spa with those options.

[J._McD]

I believe that to be a very good price considering the additional extras mentioned.  

[drewstar]

Sundance is running a promotion and offering a  free steroe with ALL series 800 spas (Optima included).

So,  discount the cost of the stereo from that price...


http://sundancespas.com/

[J._McD]

Sundance is running a promotion and offering a  free steroe with ALL series 800 spas (Optima included).

So,  discount the cost of the stereo from that price...


http://sundancespas.com/

I would suggest first determining what the price of the spa was a month ago with and without the stereo.  Not everything in this life is free, especially if you are the dealer who DOES HAVE to pay for the stereo.  However, I would certainly expect the price to be better than a similar purchase from a month ago.

[drewstar]

I would suggest first determining what the price of the spa was a month ago with and without the stereo.  Not everything in this life is free, especially if you are the dealer who DOES HAVE to pay for the stereo.  However, I would certainly expect the price to be better than a similar purchase from a month ago.

I agree to check out prices without the stereo first.

However, if the Manufacturer is promoting a FREE STEREO, why yes I expect a FREE stereo. not just some numbers game.    

Um. where's the topic for "Dirty dealer tricks" again?

[J._McD]

I agree to check out prices without the stereo first.

However, if the Manufacturer is promoting a FREE STEREO, why yes I expect a FREE stereo. not just some numbers game.    

Um. where's the topic for "Dirty dealer tricks" again?

And a FREE stereo you will get.  I along with you would like to think the manufacturer would bite the bullet for this one and provide a FREE stereo, but it is a dealer supported promotion that not all dealers necessarily participate in and he "pays" the cost of the stereo that he does provide "free".  It is then typical for the consumer to expect everything else he want's to be included free as well.

Everybody want's a deal or a cheaper price, and on top of that they want it all,  this is a legitimate offer at dealer expense.  It is "not just some numbers game" as you may infer.  

I find your reference to a previous thread to be offensive and to imply something that you have no true knowledge or understanding of.  I can appreciate your attempt at contributing to the consumers question, but your implications are off base.

[drewstar]

And a FREE stereo you will get.  I along with you would like to think the manufacturer would bite the bullet for this one and provide a FREE stereo, but it is a dealer supported promotion that not all dealers necessarily participate in and he "pays" the cost of the stereo that he does provide "free".  It is then typical for the consumer to expect everything else he want's to be included free as well.

Everybody want's a deal or a cheaper price, and on top of that they want it all,  this is a legitimate offer at dealer expense.  It is "not just some numbers game" as you may infer.  

I find your reference to a previous thread to be offensive and to imply something that you have no true knowledge or understanding of.  I can appreciate your attempt at contributing to the consumers question, but your implications are off base.

Yes, as a consumer I expect a free stereo.  I don't want "50% off", or "Save $200” I fully and completely expect a free stereo.  If you quoted me $9000.00 on the unit without a stereo last week, I would fully expect to come in today and get the exact deal plus with the stereo.  To give me the stereo for free, only to charge me $500 more for the tub, well then that is the "numbers game". What do you call it?  

For you to say "not everything is free and expect to save "Some”, well that is deceptive. Don't advertise as FREE. Advertise it as a discount or a coupon off.   You know, around here, the FTC and Attorney general prosecute retailers who have these so called "False Sales".  Dealers doing such practices do belong in the Dirty Dealers Topic"

   

I find your statement of "no true knowledge of" to be demeaning to me as an adult and a consumer. Who the hell do you think your dealing with? Some 17 year old gum snapper buying a used car? What's this "Oh, retail sales are much too complicated for you to understand" attitude? Give me a break. You're selling a product. I understand margins, incentives and promotions and costs.

Retail is not rocket science.

Maybe it was difficult for you to understand, so you expect others to have a similar problemsunderstanding it?  

Yes. If you advertise a FREE Stereo. I expect it.

Consumers disagree/Agree?


I modified this for spelling and grammar. Sorry. I was upset. But “false sales” are a dirty trick dealers use to get people in the store. To have someone imply I don’t understand retail, and to bend over when they exaggerate their so called "sales" gets me pissed.

[shabba34]

 



  

I find your statement of "no true knoweldge of" to be demeaning to me as a an adult and a consumer. Who the hell do you think your dealing with? Some 17 year old gum snapper buying a used car? What's this "Oh, retail sales are much too complicated for you to understand" attitude? Give me a break. You're selling a product. I understand margins, incentives and promotions and costs. Retail is not rocket science.  Maybe it was difficult  for you to understand, so you expect others to have a similliar diffculting understanding it?

 

 I think J_McD meant not understanding the guidelines behind Sundance's "Free Stereo" promo, not you understanding retail sales and margins.  There is obviously more to it than I understand, and I can see where the customer can get wrapped up with the wrong info, whether it comes from the salesmans inproper delivery of how the promo works, or the customers lack of understanding of the details of the promo.  I can see both sides of misunderstanding, and i'm sure J_McD will clear it all up.  

[drewstar]

 i'm sure J_McD will clear it all up.  

I hope so.  I find many of his posts very insightful and valuable.  

[J._McD]

My wife gave me a bumper sticker that we have not displayed.  It says; “I know there is a Hell, I work in retail.”  

Making customers “happy” sometimes is impossible.  And, I know how you feel about advertising, as I share your feelings.  You must LIE to the consuming public to attract their attention in an ad and get them into your store.  SO, I don’t advertise.  My trade comes mostly by word of mouth from our customers who don’t lie about how we do business or how we treat them.  

To advertise you must make outlandish claims that are not truthful like “mini blinds 70% off” for 30 years now, “double your savings”, “Sale ends Sunday”, “Never before…”, “lowest prices ever”, “first 50 sales…”, “Cash back rebates”, the list is endless.  Well, today a FREE Stereo in my store is a FREE stereo because I pay for it.  

Last month if you where in, along with the spa you got a Free CD ozonator, Free Delivery, Free Chemicals, Free entry Steps, and a Free Cover Lifter, the stereo was $995 and you don’t really need it a $79 boom box would be better.  Well guess what, we sell more stereos than we thought we did.

Now, if you come in, the price is the SAME, and it comes with Free CD ozonator, Free delivery, Free chemicals, and a FREE STEREO, but if you want the cover lifter and the step that will be $300.  That is when you will tell me that everything was included “last week” so I want it all plus the Free Stereo.  Some people are just never happy, in short they are pigs, they want everything FREE.  

This example represents $400 to $500 better value than the previous sale and when it ends it ends.  But the cynical customer, there are a few, thinks you are still cheating him out of something that he is somehow entitled to.  

In you own words, you said, “I would fully expect to come in today and get the exact deal plus with the stereo.  To give me the stereo for free, only to charge me $500 more for the tub, well then that is the "numbers game". What do you call it?”  

What was FREE last week, you did not want, what is Free this week you want but you want what was Free last week too.  This I am sure you would call a numbers game, but I would call it a $400 to $500 loss to get your business, and you think I am cheating you.  Well, I guess consumers are like that, they don’t trust the retailer, like the consumer always tells the truth.  Why has our society become so untrusting and cynical that some people think we all have to lie to each other?

You said, “the FTC and Attorney general prosecute retailers who have these so called "False Sales".  Dealers doing such practices do belong in the Dirty Dealers Topic"

This is true only when it affects 10’s of thousands of people.  The Attorney General of Missouri just closed down such a practice that has been used in this industry, “The Consumers Trust” with over $167,000,000 in consumer rebate claims promised to consumers after collecting $24,000,000 in dealer fees, and siphoning off over $14,000,000 off shore.  The AG could only attach $10,000,000 of assets to offset such claims.  

Guess what, there are a lot of losers out there and they are all consumers.  I know how you feel.  Why do you think we are all out to cheat you?  I am impeccably honest, (please excuse the self ingratiating comment) go through my threads and locate just one conflict of the truth.  Opinionated, yes, dishonest, never, (well, I once told a solicitor on the phone that I was the janitor).

I know how you feel and I know why you do feel that way.  You have been cheated before and now you believe everybody is out to cheat you.  We are not, but some are.

You said, “I find your statement of "no true knowledge of" to be demeaning to me as an adult and a consumer. Who the hell do you think your dealing with?..........you're selling a product. I understand margins, incentives and promotions and costs.”

I seriously do question your understanding, by all the indications you don’t.  Why should you find it demeaning, until you have walked in my shoes, do not judge me?  Your words are filled with anger and resentment and you direct them to me, yet you don’t know me.  This is not a FALSE SALE as you claim.  You are making a false statement to be read by others, that’s wrong.

You said, “Sorry. I was upset. But “false sales” are a dirty trick dealers use to get people in the store. To have someone imply I don’t understand retail, and to bend over when they exaggerate their so called "sales" gets me pissed.”

And rightly so, don’t bend over.  But you have no factual knowledge to substantiate your claim of a “false sale”, but your anger is real.  I mean you no harm, and I am honest in every way I can be.  I learned as a child, you never had to remember the truth.  Think about that.

[johnvb]

Bought my 2005 Optima this last march, live in SE Virginia.

Tub, CD ozone, cover, spa care kit, EZ lift, wood steps, 2 extra exterior lights, drink holder, one pleated (washable) filter, delivery/orientation, (no stereo):
$7891 before taxes. Since the lift has been backordered, I'm getting refunded $199 from that. Hope this helps.

BTW, regarding the issue that J. McD brings up above, many of the items I listed were "free" as per the invoice. But the dealer didn’t list the cover lifter as one of them, so I was able to request a refund.

The dealer had 10 weeks to receive a lifter after my down payment, then stated I had to wait another 2-3 weeks for delivering of the part, which would of (in my case) prevented the tub from being set, electrically hooked up and filled). Yes, retail is hell, but so is any other business that isn't ran properly.

[Brewman]

J. McD-

Very nicely explained.

Brewman

[drewstar]

 Oh boy.  

J-McD. There are legitimate sales from the manufacturer that do allow dealers to pass savings directly to the consumer.  There are many reasons why and how the manufacturer and/or Stereo OEM would do this.

In this particular instance, that's not happening and you freely admit that you're padding the margins in one area to give the illusion of savings in another. Because…get ready THERE IS NO SALE.  This is deceptive.  It's not a true sale. Yes, it happens a lot and is not unique to the Spa industry. Still, that doesn't make it right. It's an old trick.

It's the Illusion of savings that you wink and smile about, as opposed to a real charge back to the manufacturer where you could give me the deal on the tub you quoted last week and toss the stereo in.  You win, I win.  


Great Quotes:

"You must LIE to the consuming public to attract their attention"


"To advertise you must make outlandish claims that are not truthful"

"Guess what, there are a lot of losers out there and they are all consumers"

"I seriously do question your understanding, by all the indications you don’t.  Why should you find it demeaning, until you have walked in my shoes, do not judge me? "


WOW.    

[drewstar]

To further expound on this sensitive subject of "what is a sale?" I understand what you’re are saying .You wrap different packages and options together and announce  it a “Sale!” to garner interest and get customers in. You try to set yourself apart from the rest.

It's done all the time. But it is not a true sale.   It's the flavor combo du-jour. For the most part, your bottom line price hasn't t really changed and truth be told, this “sale" isn't significantly different than any other deal I could have pounded out with you 2 months ago.  

It's this type of "Sale" that many consumers of are frankly, weary off and get very frustrated by.

When Sundance promotes on its web site Free Stereos, it gives certain legitimacy to the sale that the manufacturer is providing a true savings; (see my previous reply on my definition of a “true sale”) it’s frustrating for the consumer to go in and find out that nope, it’s just the package of the moment.

From the consumer’s end of it, it's just the tricks the retailers use to get you in there.

What is frustrating is we are talking a lot of money here and there are no standard, advertised prices and options and every spa dealer has got some “Sale!” arrrgh.

Maybe Saturn will start selling tubs?