Hotspring and Sundance Warranty Claims

[Chris_H]

I shopped an un-reputable dealer this weekend that spewed a lot of lies about Hotspring and Sundance.  One was pertaining to warranty service.  

Could someone please detail the warranty process for Sundance and Hotspring?  

From a dealer perspective, I would like to know from customer call to receipt of payment from the manufacturer.  I would like a step by step process.

By the way, I already know the answer, but I think it should be heard from a Hotspring and Sundance dealer.

Thanks,

Chris

[Chas]

Well if there is an issue, the customer calls the selling dealer and they usually fix it over the phone. But, we try very hard to spend enough time talking to the customer so that we know if we really need to send out a tech, and if so, to get parts which we may not carry on the truck

Nine out of ten calls I get involve talking the customer into goint out and cleaning the filter or just 'rebooting" the spa - and that takes care of it.

But if they do all that and the tub still has an issue, we make an appointment for service.

The service tech shows up and - as promised - fixes the spa.

Then we fill out a "Warranty Service Claim" form and hand a copy to the customer.

Two more copies go into the box with the parts which are then sent back to Watkins via pre-paid UPS. "ARS" tag, I think they call it. We have tried to take large boxes of parts back to the factory with us to save them the UPS, but they lost both boxes - so we just use UPS.

Once the parts have been tested to be sure they are bad - and yes we do get them back now and then if they test OK - then the payment is authorized. Some dealers get a check once a month, others will choose to apply the amount to outstanding invoices for parts and stuff.

If there is a big problem, the spa goes back to the factory. In that case, the dealer gets paid to pull it from the yard and put it back when ready.  The factory sends a truck to pick the spa up from the dealer, or if the dealer transports it back to the factory we can invoice Watkins for the transportation. If the spa is simply replaced with a new one then the dealer gets paid for the work of removing and installing the new tub.

How'd I do?

[Chris_H]

At any point is the consumer invoiced for labor or the parts?

[Chas]

No.

I have heard of some dealers who will invoice for a pump seal failure or a circ pump failure IF the tub looks like it has an obvious chemical imbalance. In other words, if it has a floating feeder bobbing around in it and the chlorine level is so high that the cover is trashed and the chlorine smell greets you at the curb as you get out of the truck, or if there is a huge calcium layer all over the inside of the tub, some dealers will invoice and then refund if the warranty claim gets paid by Watkins.

Those items I mentioned are rare. I guess what I'm saying is: if it is patently obvious that the claim is not going to be covered because of abuse, some dealers explain the situation and take a credit card number.

[Chris_H]

Chas,

Since as of this writing no Sundance dealer has responded, do you believe in your professional opinion, that Sundance handles warranty claims in pretty much the same manner as Hotspring?

Thanks,

Chris

[J._McD]

First comes "the service call", which we trouble shoot on the telephone.  We ask the customer to help us help them so we may be prepared.  We purchase all of our parts from the manufacturer and stock them at the store carrying a long list of parts in the truck.  (This is our money well into 5 figures).  When the problem is not resolve on the phone, we respond within 24 to 48 hours to resolve the problem.

The warranty allows "a fair and reasonable travel mileage allowance".  Because all new spas should start up without a problem, we waive any charges as they are considered discretionary to the dealer.  If when we get there the problem is a dirty filter, or if we pull something out of the pump, or release an air lock, we tried to eliminate this on the phone, charges may apply, but not likely.  Their is no manufacturer defect in material or labor, but we need to establish who is responsible for their own property.

Once the problem is diagnoised, the soulution is implemented and the systems check has been accomplished, our customer service is complete.  If the problem is a pump seal, we replace the pump system with a new one and return the pump to the manufacturer.

We then, within the next 2 weeks, return the parts and submit to the manufacturer for reimbursemtnt of the cost of our parts and 1 hour labor even if service take 3 hours.  Occasionaly, claims are denied and we eat the losses.  (try billing a customer 2 to 3 months after service and tell them the manufacturer rejected it, good luck)  

Rarely, most likley never, customer issues are not handled by the dealer as a warranty issue.  Basiclly, it is the dealer who determines warranty issues that are then approved by the manufacturer.  If their are obvious problems with maintenance or water chemistry we will advise the customer "we can not cover it next time" so be sure to take better care of it this time.

It is truley amazing what customer believe should be taken care of under warranty and FREE of charge to them.  We usually eat these charges in the interest of customer care but, at our discreation may charge a trip charge to cover the cost and expense of travel charges.

[Chris_H]

J.Mcd,

For a Sundance Spa, is the consumer ever out-of-pocket for a manufacturing defect, like a heater not working (excludes mileage charges)?  

Chris

[stuart]

J.Mcd,

For a Sundance Spa, is the consumer ever out-of-pocket for a manufacturing defect, like a heater not working (excludes mileage charges)?  

Chris

Chris,
I believe that the warrenty leaves that in hands of the Dealer. Last time I checked they were at a standard hourly rate per call for labor but no one really covers drive time.

Our local SD dealer charges a trip charge for every call however I know several SD dealers that don't.

[Chris_H]

Maybe I should re-phrase...

With the exception of mileage, is the cusumer ever out of pocket for a warranty claim?

[stuart]

I have a call into a freind that sells SD to get an answer however...JMcD is the best source for this.

[Chas]

As far as I know, the SD customer is not out of pocket for any warranty items.

Darn it....

[J._McD]

J.Mcd,

For a Sundance Spa, is the consumer ever out-of-pocket for a manufacturing defect, like a heater not working (excludes mileage charges)?  

Chris

NO

Parts and labor are fully covered and paid for by the warranty.  Should be a simple clear cut issue in all cases.  100% of the time coverage is assumed to be covered by the dealer who becomes the "in between" for the mfg and the customer.  The dealer eventually gets it covered by the mfg, OR NOT.

The only time we charged a customer for a function failure was when we were replacing his circ pump for a third time and we knew he was have some major water issues that we could not understand.

I drove out there personally and met the service tech there.  The house was "gated" and the consumer was of the opinion it was "faulty" product and was rather arrogant, which didn't help the situation.  He had previously owned another very well know "quality" manufacturer and NEVER had this many problems.  

Again for the third time we were having "flo" issues with a 2004 micro clean system that we had reverted to an all pleated filter system at no charge to the customer (and believe me Sundance didn't pay either).  I asked to see the chemicals that we had sent out with the spa when it was delivered.  Upon inspection they were half gone, along with several empty bottles of Baquaspa.

When I discussed who takes care of the spa, his response was his dad did, unless they had friends over and then they would "help".

The spa water was so screwed up it was a stew and the third circulation pump wouldn't spin.  It was siezed up.  The water had to be drained, the sticky goo had to be cleaned, new filter had to be put in and we had to discuss the cause of the problem.  All of this took four hours, new circ pump, new filter, along with other goo'ed up parts.

This was not a Sundance problem nor was it a dealer problem.  It was a customer problem.  We billed the customer who has never paid the bill, and he is angry with us for not backing up the product.

We loose.

[shabba34]

Maybe I should re-phrase...

With the exception of mileage, is the cusumer ever out of pocket for a warranty claim?

Other than trip charges, and the occasional nusance call (Told the cust. to clean the filters, problem still continues, we go out for service just to find out that the spa has dirty filters.)  We charge 1/2 a service call ($45.00) for these types of situations.  The customer is not out of pocket for any warranty service claim otherwise.

[Chris_H]

Thanks guys for clearing my question up.  

I knew the answer, but it is important that consumers know this information directly from reputuble individuals (Yes, Chas that does include you) due to some salespeople possibly lying while selling a spa.

[J._McD]

Salespeople while trying to sell a spa want to say the other guy is a "bad" choice for a variety of different reasons.  

The sad part of this industry, that type of a salesperson knows more about evertyhing else than he does about the features and benefits of his own product.

One of my competitors talks about the flucuating stock prices and their relationship to the availability of parts in the future when they will be needed, IF you buy the product I sell.  All I can do is laugh and think, how pathetic.

The only problem is the consumer who was going to buy a Hot Tub, now does not buy anything at all.  Not his, Not mine, nobody's.

Until we can start creating counsumer consumption in this industry, we are going to continually choke off our own future.  Bad mouthing and back biting competitors and different manufacturers is so dumb, it turns people off, frightens them into NOT making a decision, they spend their money elsewhere.