Hot Springs vs Sundance

[ebirrane]

Both are good tubs.  I looked at both sundance and hot springs and chose a hot springs. But a good friend chose a sundance -- a cameo in fact.  

Despite the reputation HS has, amongst some people on this board, for costing too much, I too found the sundance to be much more expensive.  No disrespect to my friend, but I wouldn't trade my grandee for his cameo, and certainly would not pay more for it.

Sundance is not better constructed. Let me see if I can come up with a *meaningful* comment.  Since I own a HS this will probably come out as skewed for HS.  I just know more about the tub I own.

1) Pumps
SD has more powerful pumps than HS. Some people love this, some people think they run way too hard and turn them down.  Think about how you will use the tub, and what kind of therapy feels best to you.

2) Filtration
HS tri-x filters are very nice and last a while and are super easy to clean. SD micro filter might need to be replaced 1-2 times a year (It's pretty easy to gum up at 1 micron). Although SD might have moved away from the micro-filter design in 2005.  If so, the 2005 SD line might have some "new" experimental filtration system. Or, it might not.  HS has 5 filters on many of its bigger tubs.  I think more filters and larger square footage of filtration is better, but it is *certainly* a debatable point.

3) Chemicals
SD pushes bromine, and HS pushes MPS/dichlor.  I think you can switch your SD tub to not use bromine with little effort, though.

4) Rumors and old (maybe) info
2004 models of SD had some noisy diverter valve problems and a new diverter valve design was supposed to be coming to help this.  Others filled their diverter valves with silicon to muffle the sound with great success. You might want to ask about this.  Also, some people stated the "stainless steel" jets on the SD discolor, but others vehemently deny this.

5) Seating
HS has more open style seats and SD has more bucket-style seats.  I like open style seats because I like to move around, others like bucket style seats.  I believe the SD has handles built in.  I thought that was nice.

6) Types of jets
The HS moto-massage is hit or miss on people. At first I hated it, but after a second wet test, I *loved* it. It is the only jets in any tub I can sit in front of for > 30 minutes without feeling itchy, sore, or "rubbed raw" (on both my HS and my friends cameo).  If you are a motomassage kinda guy, you gotta get a HS.  If you aren't a motomassage kinda guy, you really shouldn't get a HS.

7) Stereo
HS has a better sounding transducer system, IMO, but it costs WAY too much, and neither system is as good, $$ wise as buying some good marine-grade speakers.  The warranty on the speakers is, I believe, 1 year, and that is for a reason.

Alot of my SD information might be older, as I know they changed a bunch of things in the 2005/6 line (like, I thought someone said they finally ditched the 1 micron filter??).

My personal opinion is that HS has some neat things like the tri-x filters and the moto-massage that give it some unique brand identity.  SD really pushes its much more powerful pumps.

Anyway, thems my opinions and I'm sticking to them.

-Ed

[jet757f]

Maybe they didnt feel that a hot tub is worth almost 10K!!!

[Chris_H]

She was quoted $9,200 with Stereo.  You were quoted $8,900 without a stereo.

That is only $300 more for a stereo.

[Chris_H]

I wanted to make a selected response to Ed’s comments.

“2) Filtration - HS tri-x filters are very nice and last a while and are super easy to clean. SD micro filter might need to be replaced 1-2 times a year (It's pretty easy to gum up at 1 micron). Although SD might have moved away from the micro-filter design in 2005.  If so, the 2005 SD line might have some "new" experimental filtration system. Or, it might not.  HS has 5 filters on many of its bigger tubs.  I think more filters and larger square footage of filtration is better, but it is *certainly* a debatable point.”

Both will keep your water clean.  That is what you are worried about.

”3) Chemicals - SD pushes bromine, and HS pushes MPS/dichlor.  I think you can switch your SD tub to not use
Bromine with little effort, though.”

I disagree.  Sundance allows you to use both MPS/Dichlor with a N2 Cartridge or Bromine or Baqua.

”4) Rumors and old (maybe) info - 2004 models of SD had some noisy diverter valve problems and a new diverter valve design was supposed to be coming to help this.  Others filled their diverter valves with silicon to muffle the sound with great success. You might want to ask about this.  Also, some people stated the "stainless steel" jets on the SD discolor, but others vehemently deny this.”

Don’t take offense to this Ed and Chas and East Texas, but Hotspring’s diverters were just as noisy as Sundance’s.  Previously, Sundance’s diverters were noisy on the middle position on either diverter for the Optima/Cameo, where as Hotspring’s diverters are noisy at full blast position.  I might have them mixed up.  What made it an issue for Sundance was the diverters are always right by the seat you are sitting in, where as Hotspring tends to put the diverter where no one sits.

”5) Seating
HS has more open style seats and SD has more bucket-style seats.  I like open style seats because I like to move around, others like bucket style seats.  I believe the SD has handles built in.  I thought that was nice.”

Personal preference.

”6) Types of jets
The HS moto-massage is hit or miss on people. At first I hated it, but after a second wet test, I *loved* it. It is the only jets in any tub I can sit in front of for > 30 minutes without feeling itchy, sore, or "rubbed raw" (on both my HS and my friends cameo).  If you are a motomassage kinda guy, you gotta get a HS.  If you aren't a motomassage kinda guy, you really shouldn't get a HS.”

Jetting is personal preference.

7) Stereo
HS has a better sounding transducer system, IMO, but it costs WAY too much, and neither system is as good, $$ wise as buying some good marine-grade speakers.  The warranty on the speakers is, I believe, 1 year, and that is for a reason.

Ahh, no stereo made today has a 2-year warranty.  Except for Sundance’s.

”Alot of my SD information might be older, as I know they changed a bunch of things in the 2005/6 line (like, I thought someone said they finally ditched the 1 micron filter??).”

They still use the 1 micron cartridge in their 850 series.  Now they are using a disposable 5 micron cartridge in their 880 series.  I would call those items unique that give Sundance brand identity.

[ebirrane]

I wanted to make a selected response to Ed’s comments.

No problemo. You can't say anything one way or the other about a major brand here without lots of comments, and thats a good thing.  Sometimes I get the usernamed confused since I don't stop by here regularly anymore. Do you sell SD?

Both will keep your water clean.  That is what you are worried about.

No arguments that both will keep water clean.

Chris.  Where the debate is is how much it costs in time and money to keep the water clean. I'm not talking alot of time, and I'm not talking alot of money, but I think the tri-x do a great job and come in with less maintenance than the other filters.

I disagree.  Sundance allows you to use both MPS/Dichlor with a N2 Cartridge or Bromine or Baqua.

What is there to disagree with? I said SD can switch to not use Bromine.  My local Sundance dealer heavily pushes bromine.  I understand he doesn't represent SD directly, but neither do you.  I should have said "my local dealer said his SD tubs should use bromine"

Don’t take offense to this Ed and Chas and East Texas, but Hotspring’s diverters were just as noisy as Sundance’s.  Previously, Sundance’s diverters were noisy on the middle position on either diverter for the Optima/Cameo, where as Hotspring’s diverters are noisy at full blast position.  I might have them mixed up.  What made it an issue for Sundance was the diverters are always right by the seat you are sitting in, where as Hotspring tends to put the diverter where no one sits.

No offense taken, and you are probably right.  I had not seen people post about the diverters on the HS probably because they are placed in different spots making it less of an issue.

Personal preference.

Well.. duh!

That is what the whole post is about. trachda is making a spa purchase based on personal preference, and I was telling him what areas come into play for .. wait for it.. personal preference.  

 No aspects of a SD and HS tub will be exactly the same, each will be different, and it *all* boils down to personal preference.  When people come on these boards and say "what is best" what they are *really* saying is "what kinds of things do I  need to look at to see what is a fit for me".

  Don't poo-poo jet types and seating. Yes, it doesn't make sense to talk about it if one is defending one spa versus another, but that isn't the case here, Chris.

Ahh, no stereo made today has a 2-year warranty.  Except for Sundance’s.

That's cool that sundance upped the warranty (I'm pretty sure it was 1 year when I looked).  But it still has less than half the warranty of most other major tub components and still, in my *opinion* is not worth it.

They still use the 1 micron cartridge in their 850 series.  Now they are using a disposable 5 micron cartridge in their 880 series.  I would call those items unique that give Sundance brand identity.
 

Much agreed, then. The 1 micron filtering is something sundance does to gain some brand identity.

-Ed

[Brewman]

So far (2 years) the stainless steel escutcheons or whatever they are on my Optima jets have not discolored.

Brewman

[ebirrane]

Brewman,

 Alot of sundance owners have said that they have not had any discoloration.  


Does anyone know where this rumor came from? Was there simply a model-year snafu that caused this in tubs past, or was it simply slander introduced by competitors?

-Ed

[J._McD]

regarding the jets, I have never had a jet discoloration issue from any of my customers in 16 years.

[tony]

My SD is almost three years old and no discoloration.  A friend has a seven year old Cameo with no discoloration.

The 2005 models have the new diverters and they are very quiet.  They also retrofit to older models.

[masterge]

Great price if it includes all those extras and is a new  (not floor model or used) 2005 Cameo.   That price should also include delivery and set-up.

[Chas]

Types of jets
The HS moto-massage... It is the only jet in any tub I can sit in front of for > 30 minutes without feeling itchy, sore, or "rubbed raw" (on both my HS and my friends cameo).  If you are a motomassage kinda guy, you gotta get a HS.  If you aren't a motomassage kinda guy, you really shouldn't get a HS.

I might have agreed with your final statement last year, but now HS offers the Accolade, which is a medium-sized tub with amazing jet performance, and no Moto Massage Jet. Not a Moto fan? Try this one out. Also, you shouldn't overlook the Tiger River line. Three models, good variety of seating and jets, the biggest offer two large jet pumps, and not a Moto in sight.

[zzaphod42]

Ahh, no stereo made today has a 2-year warranty.  Except for Sundance’s.

Beachcomber has had a full two year guarantee on it's stereo for years. Please keep your facts straight, or at least put in a disclaimer such as: "To the best of my knowledge"

[Chris_H]

Beachcomber has had a full two year guarantee on it's stereo for years. Please keep your facts straight, or at least put in a disclaimer such as: "To the best of my knowledge"

I would have known that if Beachcomber decided to put the entire written warranty on thier website.  Do you mind sending me a copy of the stereo warranty.  My email is chrish484@hotmail.com.  If you only have it on hard copy, please private message me and I will give you my mailing address so you can send it to me.

[zzaphod42]

I would have known that if Beachcomber decided to put the entire written warranty on thier website.  Do you mind sending me a copy of the stereo warranty.  My email is chrish484@hotmail.com.  If you only have it on hard copy, please private message me and I will give you my mailing address so you can send it to me.

Check your email. I only have hard copies, but scanners are wonderful devices.

Enjoy