When we first started discussing buying a spa a few months ago, we had no idea where to start. But thanks to this great web-site I have learned so much about hot tubs, which brands to look at, and most of all to wet test.... Last weekend we wet tested the HS Vanguard and Envoy and Sundance Optima and Cameo. It was quite funny for husband and 19 yr old son to watch me float out of just about every seat. Originally I wanted a lounger, but have decided they are not for me. I liked all four and each salesperson was great with all our questions and took the time to explain to us how hot tubs work. Right now we are considering the Optima, mainly because I can stay seated by bracing my feet against the foot mound...and boy does that foot mound feel great. The HS moto massage was really nice. If I could put the moto massage in the Optima, it would be in my opinion, the perfect spa. Really all four were good spas and If I can find somone in my area that has water in the Grandee, I would it a try. Vanguard was too small for husband. We hope to make our decision soon. Husband wants to look at Demension 1, but I'm not sure about the adjustable head pillow. Watched the saleman try and adjust it and he was having problems with it. Thanks again for educating me on hot tubs, and hop to have ours soon.