Dual Zone Isulation?

[needasoak]

Like all newcomers, I hope to freeload off of you seasoned tub owners.

After reading many posts, I realize that there are firm opinions on both sides about Full Foam and Perimeter insulating. My question is this- Does it make sense to insulate the tub and the cabinet with a dead air space in between?

I live in western Canada, and like most northern zones, have a real fluxuation in temp. Keeping my bubbley tub warm is a priority. I looked at Arctic and Beachcomber and they both seem well thought out in their own right, even though they differ on the insulation ideas. But in my quest for a tub I came across a company who makes a tub that is foamed around the tub (about 2") and also foams around the cabinet (2-3") creating a dead air space between the two zones. I have to admit, I do like that idea. Full Foams I looked at seem to be well put together, but eventually leaks do happen. I live 2 hours away from any dealer or service guy so if I could fix it myself the better it is. The Arctic idea is attractive for the easy access, but those pumps move a lot of hose and I can see hose support being an advantage. The other company I am considering (Sunray), like all the others, feels that their idea is superior. It does make sense to me in that to fix a leak you only have to remove 2" of foam.

I do not know of another manufacturer using this process but I know there must be. I am looking for anyone who has a tub like this or some experience with one to offer some information.

All I know is that there are three decent manufacturers of tubs I have narrowed it down to so I probably won't go too wrong.

Here are a few specs on the Sunray: 30 ports, 2 pumps, Blah blah blah, oh, an optional 5" top and around $2000.00 less.

All three dealers seem to really stand behind their respective tubs, but you really don't know until you have a problem.


Thanks for taking the time to read my post, and I look forward to your responses.  

[Mendocino101]

Leaks while being a real possibility , are much more likely to happen in the equipment area than in the plumbing.... particularly if it is a well made spa.....also spas with full foam are less likely to leak in the plumbing area than a non full foam spa .... both types of insulation work well and have their fans....

[J._McD]

There were leak problems in the middle 90's but today many tub manufacturers have eliminated using glue fittings because in the 90's the EPA mandated the reduction of emmissions.  This changed the inherent properties of glue leading to the problem 4 to 5 years later.  Inquire how the plumbing is attatched to the jet's, glued or ribbed and pressure clamped?

Still, I agree with Mendo, a good quality tub should not leak and is based upon industry experience.  The newer the manufaturer, well you take you chances, but it shouldn't happen.

I do not believe in "DEAD" air space, air moves, especially warm air, which bring up a point, where does the heat come from and don't tell me the motors?  If the shell is insulated, the cabinet is insulated, and the floor is insulated, the ambient temperature of the air contained within the tub is warmer than the ambient air outside of the tub.  The heat radiates from the plumbing hose which is the same temperature as the water.  This I might call heat loss and triggers the heater on.  But, you can easily remove side panels and identify a leak, like we say, that shouldn't occur, but if it does it's easy to find.

If the spa is solid foam, air does not touch the otherwise exposed plumbing and the leak will produce a water loss left, right or back side of the spa and you will find wet foam.  Guess what?  That's where the leak is that should not have happened to begin with, but you can remove the foam, identify the leak, and you can even get a can of foam spray and refoam the spot after repairs are made.

During you shopping process, ask the dealers about these issues and see how they answer the questions.  Good luck and for heavens sake, and yours too, get a Hot Tub.

[Tman122]

I specificly bought a brand with 4-8 inches of foam sprayed on the shell only, and installed perimiter reflextex R12 to create my own insulation skeem. While I had to deal with temp creep in the warmer days of summer (which I solved with fan venting) I did however notice an effieciency increase if colder weather. But if you truely want to know how much of an energy effieciency increase and was it worth it, yes because I love tinkering with stuff, but no it will take many years to recover the extra cost at a few bucks a month.

As stated leaks are in the equipment area 95 percent of the time.

I would not let the insulation skeem be the determining factor in a tub purchase. Comfort with a dealer and with the seats on your backside.

[Tman122]

Oh....get a cover upgrade as 80 percent of your heat loss is there.

[spahappy]

I sell both Coleman and Jacuzzi Premium spas in western North Dakota.

Coleman is themal pane, Jacuzzi is full foam.

There is no noticable opperating cost difference between the two.

Wet test and get the spa that fits you the best.


Spahappy

[Steve]

Can you tell us who this company is that promotes their design as "dual zone"?

FYI, Sunray is made about 10 minutes from where I live. I cannot recommend them in any way. Bargain basement spas with an owner who is less than reputable. I'd cross that one off.

Steve