Another electrical question

[johnvb]

 I’m installing a spa inside, so the outside vs inside GFCI access is a non-issue for me. I have a 75-80’ run between a 200 amp Square D- QO main panel and where I would install a weathertight disconnect or GFCI sub-panel. Then I have a 20’ run (wall perimeter) to the spa electrical entrance. My spa requires a 240 volt, 50 amp, 3 wire power supply (no neutral needed). My city uses the 2000 IBC and the 1996 NEC.

Can I get away with mounting the GFCI breaker in the main panel and just have the emergency disconnect switch in the spa room, or is there a maximum safe distance between GFCI and load?

Also, I don’t want (and the inspector probably wouldn’t allow) the sealtight conduit from the disconnect to be ran across the surrounding walkway to the spa. The flooring is concrete, so I have to run it in/and on the surface of the walls..

If more of the circuit has to be exposed other than the maximum allowed sealtight length (6' ?), should I use hard PVC conduit and watertight boxes, before the sealtight? Or daisy-chain sealtight lenghts with watertight boxes in between?

Don’t have the spa yet, but I am hoping that the electrical entrance will be close enough towards the back to allow the flexible stuff to be ran from the back wall/spa corner intersection.  

[windsurfdog]

Can I get away with mounting the GFCI breaker in the main panel and just have the emergency disconnect switch in the spa room, or is there a maximum safe distance between GFCI and load?

Also, I don’t want (and the inspector probably wouldn’t allow) the sealtight conduit from the disconnect to be ran across the surrounding walkway to the spa. The flooring is concrete, so I have to run it in/and on the surface of the walls..

If more of the circuit has to be exposed other than the maximum allowed sealtight length (6' ?), should I use hard PVC conduit and watertight boxes, before the sealtight? Or daisy-chain sealtight lenghts with watertight boxes in between?

Don’t have the spa yet, but I am hoping that the electrical entrance will be close enough towards the back to allow the flexible stuff to be ran from the back wall/spa corner intersection.  

Yes, you can mount a GFCI protected 2 pole 50 amp breaker in your panel and just put either a 50 amp rated 2 pole switch or a 2 pole 50 amp breaker in your disconnect--no problem at all.

If exposed and subject to damage, run Shedule 80 PVC to your disconnect and then to the edge of your tub having it enter the tub.  Change over to sealtiite just inside the tub.  The "daisy chaining" is not what you want to live with especially since sched 80 PVC is so easy to work with.

BTW, I would run a neutral wire in the conduit to at least to the disconnect and cap it off in the disconnect--should you swap tubs, it will be there if necessary.

Good luck.

[johnvb]

 Thanks, that way will save me the $$$ for a dedicated GFCI sub-panel.

Since this is all new construction, I will be able to run the circuit from the main to the safety disconnect in non-metallic cabling, in the walls, ceiling, etc. since it will be hidden.

Agree with running the neutral, for future upgrades.

[Brewman]

You are correct about your sealtite.  It's meant only for the last few feet outside the spa, and to encase the wire inside the spa cabinet to the electrical connection.
Also, you can use an inexpensive 60 amp a/c non fused pull box (under $10) for your disconnect if you put your GFI breaker in your main panel.
Brewman

[Mendocino101]

You are correct about your sealtite.  It's meant only for the last few feet outside the spa, and to encase the wire inside the spa cabinet to the electrical connection.
 Also, you can use an inexpensive 60 amp a/c non fused pull box (under $10) for your disconnect if you put your GFI breaker in your main panel.
Brewman

What you save on the Box....I think you make up for with GFI on your main .....Lowes, Home Depot both have units that have both for about $80.00

[johnvb]

You’re right Mendocino!

Here’s a GFCI breaker, not even Square D:

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=11277-1318-MP250GF&lpage=none

Here’s the whole package:

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=105741-76863-UG412RMW260P&lpage=none

And if I want to go with Square D:

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=123887-296-QOE250GFINM&lpage=none

Of course I still need a standard 50amp/2pole breaker in the main panel also.

I am assuming these “Spa Packs” are ok for the emergency safety disconnect also?

[Brewman]

Sure they are.  
Brewman

[Brewman]

What you save on the Box....I think you make up for with GFI on your main .....Lowes, Home Depot both have units that have both for about $80.00

Except that I was at the time, working with a 60 amp GFI breaker, something I neglected to mention.
There are not a lot of sources for this capacity breaker- in fact the Sqare D "pro" series was my only choice, therefore for me it made sense to put it in the main panel, which just happened to be a square D pro panel.
I found out later that my dealer had a 60 amp spa panel for about $150, plus another $30 or $40 for the SD pro series tap breaker.  So in my case it was cheaper to go the way I did.  Probably not true in the case of a 50 amp breaker.  

Ironically, the SD 60 amp GFI breaker was about $15 cheaper than their pro series 50 amper.  The 60 amp has no terminal for the neutral, like the 50 amp one does.  Only difference between the two that could account for the price difference.
Brewman

[johnvb]

 
 There are not a lot of sources for this capacity breaker- in fact the Sqare D "pro" series was my only choice, therefore for me it made sense to put it in the main panel, which just happened to be a square D pro panel.
 

Yes, all the electrical supply houses in this area that carry Square D are wholesale only. Made a few calls today. Lowes has both the Square D Homeline and QO (pro) spa packs, but no QO regular 50 amp breaker. Home Depot has no Square D spa packs, but does has the reg. 50/60-amp QO breakers. They do have a Cutler Hammer spa pack that also has extra spaces for other circuits. Either way I'm good to go. Thanks a bunch...

[Drewski]

In case you need electrical help, the "guy" at the VB Lowes that works during the day in the Electrical Department is a retired electrician. He helped me quite a bit...

Drewski

[Brewman]

I have not used the web site recently, but I found a wealth of useful electrical information at
www.homewiringandmore.com
It's run by a master electrician, and retired electrical inspector for the state of Indiana.  

Got me thru my Basement/spa wiring project.
Brewman

[johnvb]

One other thing I need to check out is the code pertaining to use of electrical PVC inside a residence.

A while back I ran some in the walls of my living room, for audio/video cabling. Later I read somewhere that some localities don't allow PVC conduit use indoors, due to the fumes it puts out in the event of a fire.

[Brewman]

Check with your local inspetor on that one.  I used PVC conduit exensively inside my walls and ceiling.  In fact, my inspector insisted that the entire run of spa wiring, from the main panel to the disconnect, and from the disconnect to the spa be in conduit.  I chose schedule 40 for this, and schedule 80 for the outdoor stuff.
Brewman