D-1 Purchase VS Caldera

[DO-DAD]

I am a newbie to this site and I am considering my first hot tub purchase. My 10 year old daughter has just been diagnosed with a very rare muscular disease and we have so far narrowed our choices to either a D-1 Chairman II (or the new Californian) or the Caldera Geneva for the therapeutic massage capabilities.  We really like the adjustable neck massage pillows and the lifetime shell warranty on the Chairman II, but my wife and daughter also like the waterfalls and lighting systems on the other models.  So, here are my concerns and I would really appreciate everyone's feedback!

1. I like the Ultra-Pure Water Management System on the D-1 and the rep showed me a chemical system where a small amount of liquid chemical is added to the water once a week (which seems easier to use than the chlorine and bromine systems.) Can anyone shed some insight on this system for me?  Can this patented system only be used with the D-1 models or can it be used with any other models?  The rep also claimed that the water would not have to be changed as often with this system (UltraPure, Visio Cartridge & chemical system.)  Any information on this?
2. While I must admit that the lights and waterfalls on the Caldera Geneva look nice, are there really any benefits to having these features in a hot tub?
3. So far, my daughter has been the only one that has wet tested many of the available models that we have looked at.  I hope to be able to arrange an after hours wet test at each dealership for all of us, so that we can all make an informed decision.  So far, the D-1 Californian model has not been available to see at the dealership.  Any suggestions for these models?
4. The Chairman II offers (2) 3.6 HP dual speed pumps as well as the circulation pump.  The Caldera Geneva offers (2) 2.5 HP pumps (1 is a dual speed and the other a single speed pump) as well as a circulation pump.  Is the 3.6 HP pump a better pump than a 2.5 HP pump and/or would it last longer than the smaller pump?

Thanks for any input on these questions and concerns.

[Mendocino101]

I would say that both are fine tubs and each will have its supporters....I myself prefer the D-1 ...I am of the opinion....after wet testing and having had a deposit down on the Utopia Niagara from Caldera that the jets they use are to small ..... They are for me just to itchy ....but the lights are nice ....D-1  I think has one of the better water management systems on the market but I think the Caldera will be fine as well.....I am sure you will hear from others who have had their experiences with the spas ...Jason here is probably the most fair source as his store carries both.....

[poolboy34]

Having worked for a D-1 dealer for close to 4 years now I can honestly say they make a great product.  We also happen to sell Caldera as well.  

Dimension one might be able to fit your families needs better then the caldera spa can.  The larger jets on the D-1 provide a more thurough and gentle massage, which will allow your daughter to stay in the spa longer.  Caldera uses primarily the smaller "euro" jets that can be irritating to some people after a prolonged soaking period.  It should also be noted that you can interchange ALL of the jets in a D-1 Spa to fully customize and taylor every seat to your therapy needs, as well as adjust each jet at the jet face in addtion to the divertor valves.  The 2005 Californian is an excelent spa, it has all of the hydro therapy benefits and contoured and ergonomically correct seating designs  that D-1 is known for, but also provides the aethetics of the LED lights and a water feature.

As for the Ultra-Pure water mgmt system.  It's one of the best in the industry, and is a third generation system that D-1 has patented.  There are many systems that are SIMILAR, but they are not the same.  As for the need to not drain your spa and use less chemicals..............don't believe it.  Drain and refill times will vary with the amount of use and average number of bathers in the spa on a regular basis.  D-1's Vision cartridge DOES reduce the amount of chlorine you will have to use in the spa on a regular basis.  Depending on use, you might have to use chlorine once a week, or once a month.   Keep in mind you will still have to maintain the proper pH, Alkalinity, and calcium Hardness.  This is true of all spas, no matter what you are using for a sanitizer.

If you have any specific questions let me know, and I'll try to answer them in a timely fashion.

Jason,
Store manager for a Dimension one, Caldera, Nordic & Hawkeye Dealer

[Spatech_tuo]

Both are excellent spas from good manufacturers so you can't go wrong eithe way. Look closely at the "lifetime" shell warranty from D1. It isn't what it seems. Its a good deal but after a certain time, you may be obligated to unhook and ship the spa back to D1 for repair (shipping to and from at your cost). That's better than nothing but I'm not sure how often that's really worthwhile. Otherwise, it is basically a standard shell warranty. I don't want to know it but I know it confuses people when they see the word "lifetime" so check the fine print. The wet test is of course important along with the dealer, the deal you can get and the manufacturer.

[Mendocino101]

Jason...

I am gald you dropped by so quickly...I thought you could offer some insight that not many can as you deal with both lines... Hope all is well with you... ...by the way isn't the vision cartridge a sliver mineral cartridge much like the Nature 2 or the spa frog .....

[Guttboy]

Hi have to echo Jason's comments on the smaller jets in the Caldera.  They tend to irritate my wife and I.  

Just a thought...and I am not a dealer or spa person....in our quest we found that the Artesian Platinum series gave us the best hydrotherapy of all the major brands to include HS, Caldera, Sundance.  We could not WT a Chairman or Californian so I dont know how they would compare.

Some folks REALLY like megapower jets....I cant take them for very long so the Artesian really fit our bill.

[poolboy34]

Actually D-1's Vision cartridge and the Nature 2 Stick (also known as Sun Purity, Monarch Ion Stick, Everfresh Ionizer, etc...) are made by Zodiac Pool care Products in canada.  the main difference between the N2 Stick and the Vision cartridge is that the N2 stick lasts 3-4 months, and the vision cart. lasts 6 months.  The Visoon cartridge has more silver minerals in it, so it lasts a lil longer.

I've yet to wet test a caldera myself, but I have been in several D-1 spas in the past few years and can safely say that they offer a gentle and a very powerful massage at the same time.  It's a great thing that ALL of the jets are Fully adjustable at every jet face, as well as the added value of the divertor valves in selected models.  these help tone down the massage action to allow you a longer soaking period.  Don't get me wrong, we have many very happy and satisfied Caldera owners who wouldn't trade their spa for another brand, but in my honest opion D-1 spas offer the best hydro-therapy in the industry.

[Bill_Stevenson]

>in my honest opion D-1 spas offer the best hydro-therapy in the industry. <

I am sure this is an honest statement.  I will make an equally honest statement.  In my honest opinion, the D-1 spas offer a weak alternative to the much more vigorous therapy in a Caldera Geneva Utopia.  The comments about jet size and itching only point out that  Caldera spas have stronger jets - in my opinion perhaps the very strongest jets of any.  This can be controlled by manipulating the the valves, but for those of us that like a strong message this is a good thing.

Which just proves that choosing a spa is subjective and it is very, very important for each prospective buyer to wet test for themselves.

Regards,

Bill

[Mendocino101]

>in my honest opion D-1 spas offer the best hydro-therapy in the industry. <

I am sure this is an honest statement.  I will make an equally honest statement.  In my honest opinion, the D-1 spas offer a weak alternative to the much more vigorous therapy in a Caldera Geneva Utopia.  The comments about jet size and itching only point out that  Caldera spas have stronger jets - in my opinion perhaps the very strongest jets of any.  This can be controlled by manipulating the the valves, but for those of us that like a strong message this is a good thing.

Which just proves that choosing a spa is subjective and it is very, very important for each prospective buyer to wet test for themselves.

Regards,

Bill

BIll ...

You are correct about this showing the importance of a wet test...but "higher pressure jets" in no way means stronger...adding a high pressure nozzle to a garden hose does not change the water flow or how many gallons per minute come out of the hose... just the pressure that is being pushed though a smaller opening ....for some this may be the best massage you can find ...but many will find this to quickly leave their skin feeling itchy ....

[Bill_Stevenson]

>but "higher pressure jets" in no way means stronger...<

I didn't say anything about pressure and don't know who you are quoting.  I said stronger, which is so because the smaller diameter jet configuration makes the flow velocity higher for a given volume of flow.  Perhaps you should know that I am an engineer before we get into some sort of needless discussion about issues that we both already understand.  

My point is that the feel of the message from one spa manufacturer can be quite different than another.  This is true for a whole bunch of reasons.  What is important is that evaluating spas from competitive manufacturers (i.e. similar quality and price point) is quite subjective.  Each person must experience the differences and make up their own mind about what is suitable for them.  

I can fully understand someone preferring D-1 over Caldera.  I can also fully understand a reverse conclusion as I am sure you can too.  

Regards,

Bill

[Mendocino101]

Bill,

completely agreed that spas will feel different....but using a smaller jet is not indicative of being more vigorous , but,  I guess perhaps you could say that. I think what it implies when you mentioned stronger jets, is the spa is somehow more powerful ....when the reason for what feels more ...stronger....powerful....or vigorous .....is a smaller jet opening that in the end creates more pressure ....and as you point out that  this might be a good thing for some but for many itchy skin is what they will be left with and again as you and so many others point out....WET TEST to know for yourself what you perfer.....

[lotusbay2004]

Hi Jason, what water management program do you recommend with the Ultra-pure system with Vision (I have a 2004 lotus bay)?  We use the spa once or twice a week (only on weekends).

Is the following regimen ok?
    dichlor after each use - 3ppm
    if not used during a weekend, put dichlor in anyway
    monthly shocking - 21 ppm
    change water every 2 month
    rotate filter every month

    Leisure Time pH up/down to maintain pH
    sodium bicarb to inc Alk
    Sea-Klear 4 in 1 Clarifier / Self-Floccing Defoamer as needed

With Vision, is there any chemicals (other than bromine) that I can't put in the water, or have to take the cartridge out while the chemical is in the water?

Thank you.

Having worked for a D-1 dealer for close to 4 years now I can honestly say they make a great product.  We also happen to sell Caldera as well.  

Dimension one might be able to fit your families needs better then the caldera spa can.  The larger jets on the D-1 provide a more thurough and gentle massage, which will allow your daughter to stay in the spa longer.  Caldera uses primarily the smaller "euro" jets that can be irritating to some people after a prolonged soaking period.  It should also be noted that you can interchange ALL of the jets in a D-1 Spa to fully customize and taylor every seat to your therapy needs, as well as adjust each jet at the jet face in addtion to the divertor valves.  The 2005 Californian is an excelent spa, it has all of the hydro therapy benefits and contoured and ergonomically correct seating designs  that D-1 is known for, but also provides the aethetics of the LED lights and a water feature.

As for the Ultra-Pure water mgmt system.  It's one of the best in the industry, and is a third generation system that D-1 has patented.  There are many systems that are SIMILAR, but they are not the same.  As for the need to not drain your spa and use less chemicals..............don't believe it.  Drain and refill times will vary with the amount of use and average number of bathers in the spa on a regular basis.  D-1's Vision cartridge DOES reduce the amount of chlorine you will have to use in the spa on a regular basis.  Depending on use, you might have to use chlorine once a week, or once a month.   Keep in mind you will still have to maintain the proper pH, Alkalinity, and calcium Hardness.  This is true of all spas, no matter what you are using for a sanitizer.

If you have any specific questions let me know, and I'll try to answer them in a timely fashion.

Jason,
Store manager for a Dimension one, Caldera, Nordic & Hawkeye Dealer