Filtration, Circulation, Heating Harmony

[J._McD]

Boy, this is really a tough crowd, after all of the openess and disclaimers, trying NOT to be subject to attack.  

Circlt indicates that she has looked at  - A -  spa which happens to be the one I referenced, suggesting that she focus on filtration and purification because of her water situation.  

The real problem here is water quality and the time between water changes, not which spa is better than the other, or what is the best method to maintain water, but under her conditions, I sure wouldn't want to sit in a chemical stew or change the water every other month.

Purifying the water is one issue, keeping it clean is another issue, and the time frame between water changes is again still another issue.

I do not mean to offend anyone, trip any triggers, pontificate or espouse any particular this or that in my attempt to be open and honest, but yet, I am seemingly offensive to some in my statement that was meant to be helpful.  

Cheeze, some of you really have a chip on your shoulder, looking to draw a line in the sand and debate an issue here.

I know what I know and what I have learned over time based on my hands on experience of 21 years.  Yet, I still learn something new everyday.  I am not here to profit or to stand on a soap box.

If I have offended any of you, then I appologize to you, but YOU are not dealing with her problem, but seemingly trying to stir one up.

If one can regognize that ozone, which is not a chemical but a gaseous form of sanitizer/oxidizer that does not build up or accumulate, does in fact have a POTENTIAL benefit particularly in the ability to reduce other chemical sanitizers that will in fact aid in the water purification then the point is made.  It does have a particular application in this instance.

I am not looking to market one concept over the other, but if it CAN make the difference of longer term durations between water changes, it is absolutely appropriate.

Circlt is a newbie and look at us, were bickering again.

SD has had it's own problems during it's developement, and so has HS, D1, Mar, Col, and every other mfg in the industry and no one knows them better than the people in the industry that have handled them.  We speak from experinece and we do have meaningful insight and benefit to those of you who are shopping to buy 1 spa when some of us have bought thousands.

You have made statements regarding what I have said when I never said anything about candles in my good, better, best scenario, so you individually speculate on my meanings and intentions.

But, for a newbie, if they are looking at 1 of the many other "best's", they should at least be able to focus on a feature and see if it is adequately represented in an alternate choice.

Let's get this right, THE BEST SPA IS THE ONE YOU'RE SITTING IN TONIGHT.

[Soakin]

Boy, this is really a tough crowd...

It appears I offended you, so I apologize.  It really was intended to be in fun -- but also to provide another point of view to your championing of ozone.  Contrary to your opinion, I was trying to help Circlt on this and other issues, and hope I didn't just muddy the water.  Almost all of us are on here to learn and try to help where we can.  Just because we disagree doesn't mean we can't have fun.

I am leaving town for a few days so the ozone floor is yours (unless Doc is around to keep you in line )  Keep those bubbles coming!

[Circlt]

Hey guys, you sure know how to get a thread going!  Frankly, all the banter is what makes this a valuable board.

Thank you J. McD, for all your help.  I have read all of your posts in other threads as well and you definitely give a fair, common sense approach.  It didn't take me long to agree with you regarding the ozonator; the benefits far outweigh the cons and I am definitely going to want a CD in my spa, given the circumstances.  Thanks for helping me spot that.  Ozone is not for everybody and at least I understand the downside going in.  I read your advice EXACTLY as you meant it.

Tony caught on to my dilemna in understanding Sundance filters, I am looking at websites trying to understand technology between the manufacturers and SD has a poor effort there compared to others.

There is a frequent poster on this board who loves his Grandee and has made some very good points about the five filter system of HS spas, in addition to the fact that their system is 100% no bypass, (which by the way, is a nice point but I think even 95% is still good) and I like the fact that the filters seem to have such a long life.  Disposables concern me.  I am sure that with my water and dust, the filter will take a significant beating.  Having more than one filter at play seems to be a good idea in my case.

Marquis boasts a good filtration system and I plan to look into it.  That diagram is scary, what the heck are spinners for, anyway?  Any comments pro or con are welcome.

You all did me some good, bickering.  It helps me feel confident I am going to be able to weigh things well, since you all made your point.  I would much rather have all the advice I can get and be able to toss out what doesn't suit me rather than not be able to weigh it at all.  This board is awesome and all of you are appreciated for taking the time to post.  Now leave J. McD alone, he isn't the reason I already saw the SD first, it just happened to be closest.  I will evaluate them all, believe me, and keep you posted.  Hide and watch!

[J._McD]

According to the brochure, "Only Mother Nature Does It Better"  

Are you aware that Mother Nature does not use any chemicals at all, and does in fact use Ozone exclusively.


Soakin, pull up on the stick, you didn't offend me, you misunderstood me.  I accept your appology, if you accept mine.  I wasn't a cheap shot, just a loving jab.

The points we make together stir up the issue and cause the truth to come to the surface.  If we disagree, that means we're learning something and we need to challenge the issue to verify it's credibility.  While each of us MAY think we're right about different things, we have both been wrong before, just like Doc.  Now, don't go tell him I said that and start trouble all over again.

I don't consider myself to be a champion of ozone, but I do understand it and I have a long history of customer applications to draw from.  In 21 years, I have never delivered a spa without ozone, so I am well aquainted with them and I guess you could say I am passionate about the subject that is very much debated, misunderstood and maligned.  Your just trying to keep me honest aren't you.

I think we're both tuned into the same channel, we're just getting accquainted.  Now let's have some more fun while we help others and maintain a well balanced forum.  We're all here to help, if we wanted to be arrogant and pompous, well, we all know that position is taken.


So you're leavin town, eh, at least I don't have to tell you to get out of town.  Fly or drive safe and we will await your safe return.

[Guttboy]

Circlt.......

Be advised...I know of NO spa on the market that can guarantee that 100% of the water gets filtered.

The only way that 100% of the water in the spa could be guaranteed to be filtered would be to have ALL of the water pass through the filter as in a closed loop system.

HS, while a very good filter, only states that 100% of the water that passes through the pumps is filtered.  That is a correct statement.  

I personally think the HS filter system is very nice but if you dont really take a good look at what they are stating then you could misunderstand what they are getting at.

The other filter systems work well also.

As far as Sundance goes...they are one of our leaders in choice when we purchase.  This year they have gone to a disposable filter.  You can use the "older ones" (last years filters) in the 05 Models if you so choose.

I will say this though....after looking at numerous spa's and wet testing a bunch.  EACH DEALER we spoke with and researched had very good filtration.  I would be comfortable with any of the filtration systems on the market from SD, D1, Sundance, Artesian, Marquis, Caldera.  (havent had the chance to see arctic...yet!)

If ya have more ?'s let us know!  I will be wet testing a Sundance Cameo Thurs night so if you have questions for Sundance lemme know and Ill ask our dealer here too!

Regards,

mike

[hotubinn]

Rollin, rollin, rollin.....RAWHIDE!

The big advantage to our 100% no-bypass filtration is that every drop of water is filtered BEFORE it ever enters the pump, the heater, the plumbing.  To my knowledge, no one else does it this way.  Feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken.  I'm always looking to learn more about this wonderful industry.

Terminator

la spas also filters 100% of the water entering the heater, pump etc...  They have a filter system called Aqua Kleen- interesting concept.  It will filter particles down to 20 microns, and allows 4 times the flow rate of a cartridge filter.

[Mendocino101]

Marquis boasts a good filtration system and I plan to look into it.  That diagram is scary, what the heck are spinners for, anyway?  Any comments pro or con are welcome.

What spinners are you speaking of....Also spas that use a circ pump yet have a manual clean up cycle do not filter the spa 100%... the water that is in the larger ...most cases 2" plumbing line does not get filtered until the jets are turned on ....some spas will purge those lines during set times though out the day....

[windsurfdog]

Circlt,
If you stay with any of the major manufacturers, you will get a spa with a filtration system that works properly and keeps your water clean.....if you maintain it properly.  All of this 100% filtration stuff is proprietary marketing.  The most important part of tub sanitation is the owner.
Forget the type of insulation....forget the type of filtration....forget the number of pumps/jets....stick with a major manufacturer and concentrate on the therapy of the tub and the reputation of the dealer from which you buy.  Let your wet tests decide which spa is better for you and enjoy your search.  I did and I can't be happier with my MasterSpas LSX.  Good luck.  

[East_TX_Spa]

la spas also filters 100% of the water entering the heater, pump etc...  They have a filter system called Aqua Kleen- interesting concept.  It will filter particles down to 20 microns, and allows 4 times the flow rate of a cartridge filter.

I went to their website to study this and couldn't find any information.  I'm curious to know how they can do this when it looks like every spa they have has by-pass valves.  By-pass valves, by design, by-pass the filter.

Maybe I'm ignorant but I see many companies claim to filter 100% of the water, yet their spas all have by-pass valves and only 1 or 2 filters.  What am I missing?  What is the purpose of the by-pass valves?  Just trying to learn something new.

Terminator

[shabba34]

According to the brochure, "Only Mother Nature Does It Better"  

Are you aware that Mother Nature does not use any chemicals at all, and does in fact use Ozone exclusively.


I was just playin with ya too J Mcd.  And there's nothin like the smell of ozone in the morning.

[Spatech_tuo]

And there's nothin like the smell of ozone in the morning.

Wasn't that from Apocalypse Now?

[shabba34]

Wasn't that from Apocalypse Now?

si'

[hotubinn]

I went to their website to study this and couldn't find any information.  I'm curious to know how they can do this when it looks like every spa they have has by-pass valves.  By-pass valves, by design, by-pass the filter.

Maybe I'm ignorant but I see many companies claim to filter 100% of the water, yet their spas all have by-pass valves and only 1 or 2 filters.  What am I missing?  What is the purpose of the by-pass valves?  Just trying to learn something new.

Terminator

pump 1 (heat and filter pump, as well as circ pump) draws all of it's water through 2 aqua kleen filters, this is the only way it gets water.  Pump 2 draws from a suction fitting in the footwell and one filter.  Pump 3 draws strickly from suction fittings in footwell.  Good deal if you only have one or two pumps!

[East_TX_Spa]

Pump 3 draws strickly from suction fittings in footwell.  Good deal if you only have one or two pumps!

Not to split hairs, but since the suction fittings (by-pass valves) connect directly to the pump with no filter in between, by definition, they do not have 100% no by-pass filtration.

Terminator

[hotubinn]

Not to split hairs, but since the suction fittings (by-pass valves) connect directly to the pump with no filter in between, by definition, they do not have 100% no by-pass filtration.

Terminator

I was not insinuating that all pumps have 100% filtration.  Your original post simply stated that all the water entering the pump, heater, and plumbing went through the filter.  The same is the case with LA Spas.