D! vs. Sundance

[Bubbling_Bob]

Bought a house with a 15 year old Sundance and now wanna new tub.  I am considering Cameo and Altamar from Sundance and the Californian from D1.  Is this apples to apples as far as models go?  D1 seems to have a good reputation for construction and strong jets, as does Sundance.  Haven't wet tested yet, but will.  Any comments?  The D1 dealer has a diverse business while the Sundance dealer is a pool/spa operation.  Any help is appreciated.  Thanks!

[Mendocino101]

Those are both 2 of the better makes out there and as Manufactures go it is apples to apples...there are a couple of others that are also very good and would fall into the same bushel....but if you are looking just at those 2 it is a good comparison .....

[poolboy34]

Are you looking at a 2004 Californian, or a 2005 Californian???  They are both excelent spas, and if the dealer has any 04's left you should be able to a get a good deal on one as Dimension One has Completely redesigned the Californian for 2005.  The Altimar is a great spa as well.  Sundance and Dimension One have been two of the leaders in the spa industry in terms of product quality, customer service, dealer support and warranty coverage for over 20 years each.  If you have any questions let me know.

Jason,
Store Manager for a D-1, Caldera & Nordic Spas Dealer

[hottubber]

Bob,

You must wet test both models of the Sundance to

determine which will fit you better. If you find it is the

Cameo, I believe the Californian is similar in size. One

thing I can tell you with the Altamar spa, if you are taller

than 6'1", you won't fit in the lounge. If you truly want a

lounge in your spa, I think Sundance and D-1 make the

most comfortable spas, and both are of utmost quality.

IMO, I think you'll be fine with either brand.

hottubber..

[stuart]

Both spas have a very good massage! Both are highly recognized and appreciated names. Both offer great seating.

I like the Water Management system and features in the D1 better in addition to the Style and Art look of the spas.

At the end of the day what really matters is clean water, comfortable seating and great massage. (in that order!)

I will say that I’m a D1 dealer and have taken two D1’s in trade in the last year (an early 80's model and a 1993 Chairman) but have at least 8 Sundance out back ranging from 1989 to 1999. We repaired and resold both D1's but haven't been able to get to Sundances up to working order to resell. Saying that I have to add that they have done a whole lot to improve the product in the last couple of years.

[Chris_H]

I will say that I’m a D1 dealer and have taken two D1’s in trade in the last year (an early 80's model and a 1993 Chairman) but have at least 8 Sundance out back ranging from 1989 to 1999. We repaired and resold both D1's but haven't been able to get to Sundances up to working order to resell. Saying that I have to add that they have done a whole lot to improve the product in the last couple of years.

This comment kinda annoys me.  You sell D1 so it would make sense to a consumer that you would sell the D1's faster than the Sundances.  Don't we always say buy from your local dealer.  You obviously are not the Sundance local dealer.  That is probably why you haven't sold the spas that are outside.  We all know the Sundance product is a superior product.

[Mendocino101]

This comment kinda annoys me.  You sell D1 so it would make sense to a consumer that you would sell the D1's faster than the Sundances.  Don't we always say buy from your local dealer.  You obviously are not the Sundance local dealer.  That is probably why you haven't sold the spas that are outside.  We all know the Sundance product is a superior product.

Why it a may be a good reason as to why the Sundances are slower moving at his store.....other than just stating that is it a "Superior product" can you share why....Personally I think they are both very good but if someone were to hand me one and had to choose I would take the D-1...

[Phil]

Chris,

I would bet that Stuart's men do not have the time to dig out all the brittle air lines on the used Sundances, those things need to be completely dug out to replace all that air line!  Not to mention all the bad glue joints from that era........

I would imagine the D1's, because of their superior build are easier and faster to re-firb.

[stuart]

This comment kinda annoys me.  You sell D1 so it would make sense to a consumer that you would sell the D1's faster than the Sundances.  Don't we always say buy from your local dealer.  You obviously are not the Sundance local dealer.  That is probably why you haven't sold the spas that are outside.  We all know the Sundance product is a superior product.

You know what Chris? I don't think this is a pissing match that you want to get into!

I didn't want to get into detail and was simply stating fact but I will happily share, the cabinets on every one of them are falling apart, half of them have leaks at every single glue joint, every one of them has a cracked filter lid, every one of them have multiple jets falling out, some have severe microcraze cracks throughout the shell, the filter doors are messed up on just about all of them and they all need to have the very expensive pillows replaced.

Like I said, they have made several changes to the product line in the last couple years that have greatly improved it however, what I didn't say until being goaded into it is, I personally have a problem with any manufacture that would put out this kind of poor quality and get the price that they did for it!! I truly hope they have learned from it!

Now if you would like me to share pictures I will, if you want to turn this into a debate, that's fine also, I'm primed and ready!

If you prefer to leave it at the fact that Sundance had some tough years, so did D1 I'm OK with that also but from my perspective Sundance did not fair as well. Both are good products and perform well, both have decent warranties but I believe that D1 has a better track record and technology....That’s my experience and opinion based on that experience.

Remember, I was selling and servicing Sundance before you where even in the industry and have many years of experience with the product!

BTW, I have been a D1 dealer for a year now and sold Sundance for 4 + years! I would love nothing more than to resell these used tubs for a profit. If deep down I didn't think there was any value to the product I would have already disposed of these and not fought the battle any longer.

Sorry if this post sounds a bit hostile, that is not how I mean it. The undertone of frustration was intended….

Chris, I think you have a lot to offer here and to the industry. I appreciated your battles with JA more than anyone and support your comments all the way but think your letting yourself have a myopic view of a product based on your position of employment. I may have not made those statements about Sundance had I not just spent the day trying to figure out what I’m going to do with those models but one thing I can assure you, going after me for my comments is not going to make the product look better….

[Steve]

I don't think this is a pissing match that you want to get into!

Oh yeh...I can pee further than any of you!

Sorry...just adding a light and fluffy post that seemed needed...

Steve

[Chris_H]

Stuart,

First of all your original post basically said that Sundance’s were junk.  That is not the case and you know that.  You might have some frustration.

First of all, I know what a 15-year-old spa looks like.  Some are taken care of and some are not.  I spent half of my life in the industry and usually the spas that are traded in are the ones that haven’t been taken care of at all.  That is with any manufacturer.  We can all show 1 spa that is 15 years old and looks brand new, but usually there are 19 other 15 year old spas that don’t look any where near as good.  Would you disagree?
     By the way if you are wondering, I have sold, Hotspring, Sundance, Coleman and Jacuzzi.

Also, when I said Sundance was a superior product I was not meaning it was superior to all brands.  I was just saying it was a superior brand in general.

”Remember, I was selling and servicing Sundance before you where even in the industry and have many years of experience with the product!”

Well, you are probably older than me so I’d have to agree with you.

“I appreciated your battles with JA more than anyone and support your comments all the way but think your letting yourself have a myopic view of a product based on your position of employment.”

Thanks for the compliment, but what does my employment have to do with this?  I have only been out of the industry, literally since I have started posting here.  Has that much really changed?  Hotspring still sells more spas than everyone, Sundance still makes great jets, and JA is still an a**hole.  Do I really have a myopic view?

Chris

[hottubber]

This one looks like FUN...

I am not fond of the history of Sundance. We must have serviced 150 of the injector problems, I'm glad that is behind us. Having said that, I hate the fact that the 1986 air injector debackle, then later the blue glue problem. You know, it's not easy being the innovator in design and technology for this industry, a front runner. It's nice to know that at least one manufacturer had the vision to step "out of the box" to increase awareness and features for the spa industry.
So, after bringing new features to the table, some problems arise. Oh well...  Things are totally different now.
I know this will stir alot of dealers up, but it's Monday.

hottubber..

[Drifter]

Purely from a consumers perspective and considering only the 2003-2005 lines, I would agree that Sundance is a superior product to D1.  I have no knowledge of past performance or history. Just based upon my own observations and what I have learned from researching for my own information. (Now was that about as useless as a post can be? But hey like someone pointed out it's monday and I'm just glad we aren't bashing Master spas! )

[hottubber]

drifter,

Your post was right on. For those consumers that are

looking to purchase a NEW spa, they can't relate to

what was. Nice job in updated their senses to 2005

products.


hottubber...

[mowgli1]

Purely from a consumers perspective and considering only the 2003-2005 lines, I would agree that Sundance is a superior product to D1.  I have no knowledge of past performance or history. Just based upon my own observations and what I have learned from researching for my own information. (Now was that about as useless as a post can be? But hey like someone pointed out it's monday and I'm just glad we aren't bashing Master spas! )

Since you own a master spa and not a sundance I would be interested to hear your opinion as to WHY sundance is better than D1.