Master and why they lack respect within the indust

[Drifter]

Ummmm I've seen this type of post about almost every manufacture. Not sure why people are so happy to bash Master. I purchased my Master from a good dealer, paid a fair price and have been happy. I looked at Caldera, HS, Jacuzzi, Marquis and Sundance. I also looked a few others which I can't remember but I also ran into dealers selling these lines that did all that stuff mentioned above and worse. Most of the Salespersons I ran into were not well educated in their own products much less the competitions. Seems like the only guys that were knowledgable were the smaller mom and pop places where you dealt directly with the owner, who had been selling the product for some time. That's why if your going to spend the money you should be the one who is educated and know what your looking for and getting. That's why places like this are invaluable. Just my .02!

[OHspaDealer]

I agree Drifter. As a MS dealer, I do visit other dealers in other cities, and I also run into the same problems from folks as the ones who are complaining about MS. It all boils down to knowing your product, knowing your competitors product, and GETTING ALONG. I cant take all the spa deals, though I wish I could.

HS, Sundance, Jacuzzi, Marquis, et all make good products. If they didnt, they wouldnt still be in business.  If we could all just stop bad mouthing one anothers' product, and sell the features and benefits of the product we represent, the world would be a better place.

And this so called largest dealer in the midwest? Me thinks he is nothing more than a wannabe salesman. Bad training on the part of his managers.  I dont bash others, if someone asks what I think of a particular co, I tell them they make a good product but I do push my features and benefits without disparaging another.  And ... unless he has WRITTEN approval to sell out of his market by MS, he is blowing smoke and putting his dealership in jeopardy.

[Mendocino101]

To Drifter and Ohio...

You both are right and while this person does claim to be his areas largest dealer......he might be a saleman....hell he might do the deliveries... but the point is he is simply lying and that is just not right.....Master's spas do not get bashed....it is some of the sales practices that do...The spa show thing is for me the single reason why....it is such a complete lie in the way that it is promoted and it happens the same way all across the country....I went to the show here in so cal about 2 years ago as a genuine buyer and was so turned off by the falsehood of it....If you want to be part of an RV show at a fair grounds great...but please when you promote it...promote as the show that is A Master Spa Sale....but leave off names of other makers who will never be there ..just keep it real...You might even get a better turn out if it promoted as a Factory direct thing......

[poolboy34]

Exactly where are these horror stories about Arctic Spas?  I follow a few forums and have not seen any.   I also know intimitely the great lengths we, at Arctic, go to ensure the end customer is taken care of in the event of a warranty, or any service issue for that matter.  I also know how hard our dealers work to support their customers.

I would appreciate that you not slander our company, our products or our service, without backing it up with factual "horror" stories.

James Keirstead
Arctic Spas

With all due respect JP, I wasn't trying to slander or put down your company in any way shape or form.  I was simply making an observation.  I have never said that Arctic nor master Spa makes a bad product.  However, time and time again, the actions of a few individual dealers(reguardless of brand b/c it happens with almost all of them) has hurt the reputations of reputable manufactuers.  Unfortunately it seems that the same brands are repeatedly mentioned by consumers who have had issues with dealers.

And I agree with you OHspadealer that too often salepeople are uneducated on their products.  Some of this can be attributed to the manufacturers training sessions as well.  I can say that the training seminars that Watkins and D-1 (for example, and speaking from personal experience having attended sessionsof both) that they are starkly different.  Watkins has excelent SALES training.  D-1 does too, but they focus more on their product and product knowledge in their seminars.  In fact I know that many of the dealers that were attending the watkins seminar complained that they didn't spend enough time on product knowledge and openly pointed this out.  Now I don't know how other manufacturers conduct their sales training or what the main focus of the their seminars are, but I'd say it's a safe bet that they do spend alot of time on the sales process more so then overall product knowledge.  Now this by no means should let the salespeople off the hook for not knowing their product.  My boss(owner) has always stressed to us that we are REQUIRED to know about EVERY product we carry, how it works, what it consists of, how to use/apply it, when to use it etc....  And we are also REQUIRED to know the ins and outs of our competitors products as well.  Believe me this makes a HUGE difference when you can confidently praise a competeing product, yet show how the subtle differences of your own product make it better.  Knowledge is truly advantageous and we always welcome the educated shoppers, as it makes our job of helping them find the best spa for THEM all that much easier.

Jason,
Store Manager for a D-1 & Caldera Spas Dealer

[Tman122]

Wohhhhh JP you have always represented your product with proffesionalism, but, that doesn't mean all the dealers of the brand you sell have and that's where the horror stories come from.

In your next training seminar tell your dealers to back off on the pedestal they are trying to put your brand on and sell it based on comfort, reliability, and customer support. Rather than superiority, and the "what makes sence" line.

Words from a consumer that has listened to all the major brands sales pitch including yours. And has been in purchasing for 20+ years.

[windsurfdog]

Wohhhhh JP you have always represented your product with proffesionalism, but, that doesn't mean all the dealers of the brand you sell have and that's where the horror stories come from.

In your next training seminar tell your dealers to back off on the pedestal they are trying to put your brand on and sell it based on comfort, reliability, and customer support. Rather than superiority, and the "what makes sence" line.

Words from a consumer that has listened to all the major brands sales pitch including yours. And has been in purchasing for 20+ years.

Tman,
The Sundance dealer from whom I tried to buy a Cameo had the same exact attitude--about Hot Springs, no less.  I knew better and discounted his negative sales techniques as well as his lack of personality and "holier than thou" attitude which resulted in my LSX purchase (of which I am now much more pleased and appreciate the LSX features over the Cameo) thereby discarding the Sundance line altogether.  My point is that this is certainly not restricted to MS or Arctic or any other manufacturer.

[wmccall]

FYI,  I checked out of this thread a little while ago.  It looks like everyone is playing nice.  If anything needs moderated, PM me  

[wmccall]

. Not sure why people are so happy to bash Master.

From what I have seen, soley on this forum, a lot of that comes from these spa shows that are supposed to be "several manufacturers" and end up being only Master.  Granted I have never seen this and don't believe my local dealer participates in this type of arrangement.

[Mendocino101]

From what I have seen, soley on this forum, a lot of that comes from these spa shows that are supposed to be "several manufacturers" and end up being only Master.  Granted I have never seen this and don't believe my local dealer participates in this type of arrangement.

Bill...
You are very right...and while it has been raised by others and verified that it seems to take place all across the country those who are Master "fans" never address it....again it is not about bashing their spas.....at the "Spa Extravaganza"........errrrrrrrrr uhhhh  I mean Master spa sale......the spas looked interesting somethings I liked somethings not.....but no more or no less than most others....but the sales people and the fact that I went thinking I was going to be able to some real shopping to compare other makers was such a turnoff.....

[wmccall]

Bill...
You are very right...and while it has been raised by others and verified that it seems to take place all across the country

I have to imagine (all my comments about being a spa dealer are based on my limited knowledge as being a customer once.  )   But I would think these "extravaganzas" do cost the participating dealers some serious coin overhead.  And the people here suggest that it is a event encouraged by Corporate, I wonder what percentage of dealers participate.

[Mendocino101]

Bill,

I do not know if this is correct....but "I think" the shows are the Master factory they are far to large in scale for a local dealer to handle..."again"......this is what they appear to me as in my area the dealers name they used did not have a showroom....and was not part of the promotion in the advertsing....

[stuart]

I have to imagine (all my comments about being a spa dealer are based on my limited knowledge as being a customer once.  )   But I would think these "extravaganzas" do cost the participating dealers some serious coin overhead.  And the people here suggest that it is a event encouraged by Corporate, I wonder what percentage of dealers participate.

As they own the venue the price is the cost of the site + cost of advertising + Decorating less whatever they can sell other booths to unsuspecting non spa related companies!

[spahappy]

FYI,  I checked out of this thread a little while ago.  It looks like everyone is playing nice.  If anything needs moderated, PM me  

It's nice to know that Dad is close by, and ready to step in at the first sign of sibling rivalrey.


Spahappy

[poolboy34]

We have in the past ran co-ordinated sales in other parts of our territory, say 1-2 hours away from to reach another market.  These have been co-ordinated through and with our manufacturer.  And also there are no dealers in these markets that sell the same brand of spas that we sell so that is not an issue.  We deliver the spas and do any service on them if and when necessary for those customers who purchase at one of the sales.  Now if these "spa extravaganzas" are set-up through a dealer by the manufacturer that is one thing.  If they are solely put on by the manufacturer and the local dealer is not notified of them, that is another ball of wax all together.  As I assume the local dealer would be responsible for servicing the spas sold at such a function???  And who's responsible for setting up and delivering the spas sold at one of these functions???

[mowgli1]

I attended a master spa show in Novi Michigan in Jan. It was advertised as a multi dealer show  but MS was the only  brand there. We are moving to Tucson Az  when our new home is completed later this year. We only wanted to look at different spas. A factory rep  told us we could buy a spa and have it delivered through the MS dealer in Tucson. They would also store it here in Michigan until our house was done  He reassured me the dealer would be fine with this arrangement. While I still can't believe it, we bought one. It seemed like a really good deal though I later found out it was average at best.
We decided to buy the LSX1050 as we wanted a large tub.We gave them a $1000. dep. After thinking it over and reading the posts on this forum I knew dealers could not be happy about this arrangement. I called the dealer in Tucson and he was irate. He stated he would not accept, deliver, or service this spa. He told me to try and get my money back and he would call the president of MS himself for me. I called my salesman who now tells me "someone" will deliver the spa and I can get a contract repairman out of the yellow pages for service.

I had specified to the salesman that I wanted a local dealer to deliver and service the spa. While this behavior may not be illegal it is unethical. I  blame myself for getting in to this position, I should have done more homework. How can MS let this travelling circus continue to operate at the dealer's expense? Regardless of getting my money back or not I will not buy a Master Spa.
We have since tested the D1 sarena bay and  love it. I will buy this spa from a LOCAL dealer in Tucson. Thanks to all especially Stuart. I will post the outcome of this fiasco. I only wish I had discoverd this forum before I foolishly  put a deposit on this spa. I'm sure master spa has  good local dealers and I should have waited and dealt with them  in Az.