Can I get your advice please?

[JDVEGV]

  I am looking to purchase another hot tub. I have owned a HotSpring Grandee in the past and was somewhat satisfied but sold the tub with a former house. I am looking to buy again. I think I have narrowed my choices down to Sundance Altamar or HotSpring Envoy. I will take a wet test of both soon.

What I would like advice on is the quality comparison of the two. Both are close to the same price so that is not an issue.

What I do like about the Sundance from my research is thier unique jets. I have sat in an Optima before and it felt great. HotSprings does not seem to have anything that special in the jet department.

Another thing that impresses me about the Altamar is the pumps are 2.5HP verus 2HP on the Envoy.

What does impress me about the Envoy is it's about 60 gallons larger and from what I can tell has a better filtration system. It sounds like the HS has 100% filtration and the Envoy has some Tri-X filters that supposedly last up to 7 years.

I have read some posts on this forum and heard about several problems with Sundance but not sure if those are older models or newer models. I also read about Sundance charging a service fee even under warranty. I really have not heard any quality or service complaints about HotSpring. I have both dealers in town so that also is not an issue.  

To sum it all up, I like the unique jets on the Sundance better than the HS but I am scared with quality issues I have read on this forum. I guess I would like the Sundance jets and stronger pumps put in the Envoy.

So assuming both the Envoy and the Altamar are the same price, both dealers in town and both feel equally comfortable in a soak test. I guess I would like advice on which is a better quality product. Which one am I most likely to have the least amount of problems with?? Who has better service if I do have a problem or does that depend on the dealer?

And on a side note, are there any other spas similar to these 2 that maybe I do not know about??

Thanks for any help and advice. I appreciate it.

[Chas]

What I do like about the Sundance from my research is thier unique jets. I have sat in an Optima before and it felt great. HotSprings does not seem to have anything that special in the jet department.

Have you wet tested the Envoy? They have small, medium, large and extra large jets. The small and large can be run with nozzle, open, or with a spinner popped in place. They have a wide range of adjustablility aside from the distinctly different nozzle configurations.

Then there is the 'Soothing Seven' jet. This is the jet I call the 'reality jet,' because in reality, most of the folks who screamed about wanting tons of power end up relaxing in front of this rather mellow set of jets - because you can relax in front of them.

Then there is the Moto - actually now the Dual Moto on certain models - and there is nothing like it in the world.

That's six different jets - not to mention all the various ways they can be configured with different nozzles.

This is an amazing amount of variety - but it is easy to overlook. Take time during a wet test to explor all the possibilites and arrangements.

And the new HP models have far more power than before.

[tonyp]

I can't speak about the Altamar but I love the variety of seats and jets in the Envoy.  Something for everyone.  We also keep the diverters in the middle most of the time and there is still plenty of power.

[Brewman]

Many years ago there was a problem with the glue that Sundance used on it's fittings.  That's the last quality issue that I'm aware of.  I've owned a Sundance (Optima) for almost 2 years, absolutely no quality problems at all.
 Sundance does not charge a fee for warranty service.  
The dealers have the option of charging a trip fee, but that's at the dealer level, not Sundance's.   Mine does not charge.  
This is true of many brands of spa.  
Brewman

[wmccall]

Welcome,  you seem to have a real grasp of the issues and what is important to you. In addition to wet testing and the other things our fine members will bring up, have you brought these issues up to the dealers, they would have to realize you are a prepared customer and will probably elevate their game a bit, possibly resulting in a great offer to sway you one way or another. Or you may get a better idea of which dealer you would like to deal with in future years.

[hottubber]

jd,

You are comparing two very good spa lines. I have owned Sundance Spas since 1983, there were some issues with the products, as I am sure there are with all. I honestly can tell you that I have not had any major problems with my Sundance Optima for a few years now.
I understand that you may be interested in the Altamar model spa. Make sure you wet test it, if you are taller than 6'1", you may be tight in the lounger. If that is the case, take a look at the Cameo, if you are interested in a lounger. If you are trying to compare a Grandee, I would take a hard look at the Optima, that is my favorite and it is more comparable.
Good Luck...

[Chris_H]

“What I do like about the Sundance from my research is their unique jets.”

Sundance’s jets will never go bad on you.  

"I have sat in an Optima before and it felt great. HotSprings does not seem to have anything that special in the jet department."

The feel of the massage is more important than the type of jets.  Buy the spa that gives you the best massage.

”Another thing that impresses me about the Altamar is the pumps are 2.5HP verus 2HP on the Envoy.”

Don’t worry about this.  It is the massage that is important, not the pump giving you the massage.

”What does impress me about the Envoy is it's about 60 gallons larger and from what I can tell has a better filtration system.”

This is caused by the more open seating in the Hotspring.  I wouldn’t make this a major concern when comparing the Altamar and Envoy.

“It sounds like the HS has 100% filtration and the Envoy has some Tri-X filters that supposedly last up to 7 years.”

Yes, Hotspring does have 100% filtration that filters down to 18 microns.  Sundance uses the Micro-Clean filtration that filters down to 1 micron.  Ignore the people that say the Hotspring is better and ignore the people that say the Sundance is better.  Both do a great job in keeping the water clean.  They just do it differently.

”I have read some posts on this forum and heard about several problems with Sundance but not sure if those are older models or newer models.”

Sundance had a glue issue in the 1990’s.  It is just fine now.  Just so you know, Hotspring has had some issues too.

“I also read about Sundance charging a service fee even under warranty.”

No, that was one dealer being somewhat dishonest. Sundance does not charge you for service, but your dealer may charge you to come to your house.  This is the case with both Hotspring and Sundance.

”So assuming both the Envoy and the Altamar are the same price, both dealers in town and both feel equally comfortable in a soak test. I guess I would like advice on which is a better quality product.”

Both brands are great products.  I would hope that the wet test decides.

“Which one am I most likely to have the least amount of problems with?”

Both have great reputations so you shouldn’t have problems with either.

“Who has better service if I do have a problem or does that depend on the dealer?

That is going to depend on the dealer.

“Are there any other spas similar to these 2 that maybe I do not know about?”

I would consider the Altamar comparable to the Envoy.  The Optima is comparable to the Grandee.  The Cameo is comparable to the Vista.

[Spatech_tuo]

You can't compare jets on 2 different spas without wet testing them. I guess you could state which jets look nicer but that's about it. Wet test each spa (back to back on the same afternoon preferably) and then you'll have a basis for comparision.

[JDVEGV]

Thank you all very much for the feedback so far. I really appreciate it.

I have had back problems for a long time now and it's an everyday constant pain.
I just want to make sure I buy a quality product that will last a long time and help my back.

I'm sure I will know which to purchase after doing a wet test in each.

I plan on wet testing an Envoy this Saturday but can't find a dealer with an Altamar yet.

My closest Sundance dealer right now is down in Miami. I live about 90 miles North of Miami. There are HotSpring dealers all over.

There is a Vita Spa dealer in my town (Stuart, FL) that is picking up the Sundance line next month. Hopefully they will get an Altamar so I can wet test it. They also sell HydroSpa but I wasn't really impressed by either. I really don't want to buy from the dealer in Miami because I fear there will be a problem with service if needed since they are so far away. I would rather buy from someone in town.

There have been a few Sundance dealers in my area in the past but have dropped or lost the Sundance line so that scares me a little too. I haven't heard of any dealer losing or dropping HotSpring.

Thanks again for the feedback. I'll see how the Envoy feels this weekend. I might not want to get out!

[Chas]

Thanks again for the feedback. I'll see how the Envoy feels this weekend. I might not want to get out!

I don't think you can go wrong with either, but please please please - take the time to move jet nozzles around, and try the diverters in both side and middle positions. Spend time in the corner seat which can have many different groups of jets (or all jets) running, and then take more time to try the various changes which come from adding or subracting air from the jets.

Tell us how it goes

[Bill_Stevenson]

I live in West Palm Beach and see you are in Stuart.  The Sundance dealer is in Miami.  There is a Jacuzzi dealer in Stuart.  Down the street from him there is a Marquis dealer.  In Jupiter you will find your nearest HotSpring dealer.  These are all good spas.  I think you would find any of them would meet your needs and be reliable for years to come.  You might also want to take a look at Caldera, which you can see and test at Rec Warehouse on Military Trial in West Palm Beach.  

FWIW, I ruled out the Sundance because I wanted a local dealer.  The Jacuzzi Premium is made by the same company, works quite well, and has a good local dealer.  You can't go wrong with any of these spas, though.

Regards,

Bill

[Chris_H]

Then there is the 'Soothing Seven' jet. This is the jet I call the 'reality jet,' because in reality, most of the folks who screamed about wanting tons of power end up relaxing in front of this rather mellow set of jets - because you can relax in front of them.

I can actually see a Hotspring salesperson saying that and I absolutely agree with you.  I absolutely hate seats/jets that push me out of the seat.  

Do you have any other “one liners” for the jets in Hotspring spas?

[wmccall]

.

Then there is the 'Soothing Seven' jet. This is the jet I call the 'reality jet,' because in reality, most of the folks who screamed about wanting tons of power end up relaxing in front of this rather mellow set of jets - because you can relax in front of them..

Your great with pictures. Show me.

[JDVEGV]

Thanks Bill, I appreciate it.

I am hesitant buying from the Sundance dealer in Miami because they are so far away. There is a Vita Spa dealer in Stuart that is picking up the Sundance line next month so that is good.

I have been to the Jacuzzi place in Stuart a while ago. I guess I need to check it out again.

The Marquis dealer you mentioned used to also carry Sundance less than a year ago. Either they dropped the line or Sundance took it away from them. I did take a look at the Marquis spas they have. They seemed ok.

I am planning on going to the HotSpring dealer you mentioned in Jupiter this weekend to wet test the Envoy. We also have a HotSpring dealer in Stuart (Pinch-A-Penny) but they do not have an Envoy model yet.

I do like the Caldera spas but was not impressed with the dealer (Rec Warehouse) in West Palm. I just stopped by there last weekend. They only had 1 Caldera model that was $9000. I looked awesome though. The rest were Leisure Bay. They said they are still re-stocking inventory from the hurricanes. I guess thier buiding was damaged badly. (We took 2 direct hits ourselves being in Stuart.)

We also stopped by a place called Sunniland Pool & Patio in West Palm that carries CalSpa. I was somewhat impressed. Seems like they have a ton of jets and they are powered by 2 or 3 GE 6HP pumps.

Thanks for your feedback. I will take a look again at the Jacuzzi line.

[JDVEGV]

Chas, I do remember those "soothing seven" jets on our past Grandee model. They did feel good and not too over powering.

The worst of my back problems are my low back. I wish they had some of those jets located in the lower position. Seems like I remember they were up near the shoulders.

My favorite jets that the wife and I would fight over were the rotating or spinning jets on the Grandee. I  think they call them the "Hydromassage Jet".  But I had to move all around to get them on my low back.

I do remember loving those pulsating or rotating jets on the Sundance when I wet tested an Optima a year ago. Those felt awesome.

I think my back hurts more the more I talk about these spas! I need one now!