Wet-Tested Sundance Marin

[spahappy]

Interesting that you feel ISO is that important.

Did you know that when Jacuzzi bought Sundance they became ISO9001 certified as well.

I'm not sure how you can put so much stock in a quality control process like ISO9001 for Sundance and claim that the Jacuzzi Premium spas are in your words pieces of sh*t.

After all, both spas are made at the same facility in Chino Ca. so wouldn't you assume that the ISO9001 standards are equally as stringent for both brands.

How can the Sundance spa be built better because of ISO9001 standards and the Jacuzzi Premium spas be pieces of sh*t? That is of course if you truley belive that manufacturers with the ISO9001 certification make a better spa.


Spahappy


   

[Mendocino101]

Interesting that you feel ISO is that important.

Did you know that when Jacuzzi bought Sundance they became ISO9001 certified as well.

I'm not sure how you can put so much stock in a quality control process like ISO9001 for Sundance and claim that the Jacuzzi Premium spas are in your words pieces of sh*t.

After all, both spas are made at the same facility in Chino Ca. so wouldn't you assume that the ISO9001 standards are equally as stringent for both brands.

How can the Sundance spa be built better because of ISO9001 standards and the Jacuzzi Premium spas be pieces of sh*t? That is of course if you truley belive that manufacturers with the ISO9001 certification make a better spa.


Spahappy


    

 

I have to chime in here....I think a benefit of the ISO 9001 program is that yes it standards for consistent manufacting....the one thing how ever is not that the products are manufactured to a higher standard but that each one is built the same....so if you build it well......great...but if not...than....at least you will be consistent......I am sure it does help companys to build a better product....simply by being consisitent....but in and of its self...it does not assure you a quailty product.....( this does not by the way anything to do with Jacuzzi....just the program itself....)....I actually think it is something that is a real marketing program and or tool for company's to use for promotional reasons more than anything else...

just to add..It is very much same type of thought with Mac Donalds....if you think they have the best burgers out there great...becasue each Mac Donald is supposed to be the very same as the others.... but if not....at least you know what to expect....

[spahappy]

Interesting perspective Mendo. Quite possibly the  definition that makes the most sense to me at this point in my reasoning.

Spahappy  

[stuart]

Way to go Mendo! Hey buddy, cleared you cell # on my new phone and couldn't call you back. Call me tomorrow, I left a message at the store for you!

[johnnythunders]

I love how people put the Sundance and Jacuzzi line down......watkins owns both brands and let me know if i am wrong.I would stay away from the sweetwaters.lots of the dealers of the sundance try and sell the sweetwaters when lots of the people don't want to spend the extra money they end up with a sweetwater.You can spend the same and get a Jacuzzi in stead of the sweetwater since sweetwater is in the low end of the watkins line.Sorry about my spelling its the wine...............Jt

[spahappy]

I love how people put the Sundance and Jacuzzi line down......watkins owns both brands and let me know if i am wrong.I would stay away from the sweetwaters.lots of the dealers of the sundance try and sell the sweetwaters when lots of the people don't want to spend the extra money they end up with a sweetwater.You can spend the same and get a Jacuzzi in stead of the sweetwater since sweetwater is in the low end of the watkins line.Sorry about my spelling its the wine...............Jt

I love wine! I make wine, drink wine, and it's currently my alcoholic beverage of choice. In fact My coworker and I are keeping a diary on the wet tests ( both customer orintated and our own results), along with a new wine review of wines that we both recently tried.

She's a single mom and has to work part time at a liqure store to make ends meet...So we get it for her cost....Very cool!!!

And no dazedandconfused I will not tell you what that is!



Spahappy

[Mendocino101]

Hey Johnny,

I know you what you were trying to say....But actually...Jacuzzi and Sundance are owned by the same...but Watkins...( Hot Springs....Caldera....Tiger River) are actually are part of the Masco corp.....and are direct competitors of each other....all of them how ever make a fine product

[Chris_H]

The difference between the Sundance and Jacuzzi Premium are significant.  They both have a different heater, different controls, different warranty, and most importantly different dealers.  I consider them a LTP because of the fact they try to promote them as part of the premium lines of spas and unfortunately for me they just don’t have it.  Also, about the ISO9001, the old Sweetwater water line was ISO9001 certified and I personally would consider that line of spas more comparable to the Jacuzzi Premium line of spas.

Also, I never said ISO9001 made you make a better product.  It provides the manufacturer with stringent manufacturing standards.  To the detractors of manufacturing a consistent product, being consistent is extremely important.  Would you want an inconsistent flavor for the Godiva chocolates you gave your wife for Valentine’s Day or an inconsistent dosage of the Viagra you took last night?  This was not meant to offend anyone, just trying to make a point.

Sometimes a ‘batch’ can have a quality control issue, the ISO9001 process allows the manufacturer to investigate any issues that may occur.  In the spa manufacturing process, a bad batch of glue can really affect the quality of your product.  

When Sundance had their issues with their glue, they were able to find out what specific spas were messed up because of the ISO9001 certification.  ISO9001 required a record of the spas that used that specific glue.  I doubt that would have occurred in the Phoenix or ThermoSpa factory.

ISO9001 is important when problems occur.

[Spatech_tuo]

The difference between the Sundance and Jacuzzi Premium are significant.  They both have a different heater, different controls, different warranty, and most importantly different dealers.  I consider them a POS because of the fact they try to promote them as part of the premium lines of spas and unfortunately for me they just don’t have it.  

What you're describing is your explanation for why JP is not a PREMIUM spa. Calling them a POS is only going to tick off those who sell them or own one. Do you REALLY think they are a POS or are you simply trying to say you don't see them on par with Sundance and other premium spas?

[Chris_H]

What you're describing is your explanation for why JP is not a PREMIUM spa. Calling them a POS is only going to tick off those who sell them or own one. Do you REALLY think they are a POS or are you simply trying to say you don't see them on par with Sundance and other premium spas?

You are partially correct.  The JP dealers, in my area, are shall we say not very reputable.  I truly believe the dealer makes your brand.  That is the major reason why I consider them LTP.  Obviously, there are very good JP dealers out there, just not around me.

I also believe JP's are not are par with other premium spas brands.

[Spatech_tuo]

You are partially correct.  The JP dealers, in my area, are shall we say not very reputable.  I truly believe the dealer makes your brand.  That is the major reason why I consider them POS.  Obviously, there are very good JP dealers out there, just not around me.

I also believe JP's are not are par with other premium spas brands.

If the JP dealer is reputable is the brand a POS or is it simply a still less than premium spa with a good dealer to support you? Maybe you could refer to JP as LTP (less than premium) rather than a POS and tick people off.

The dealer you buy from can make a HUGE difference in your spa experience but I'm not sure he defines whether the spa itself is a POS or not. If that were the case a run of the mill spa sold by a reputable dealer would become a "premium" spa based on the quality of that dealer.  

[Chris_H]

I have changed all my POS’s to LTP’s.  

I do think that the dealer makes your spas a premium product.  If all of Sundance’s dealers were like Max78’s (sorry to get you involved), Sundance would have the reputation of Cal Spas.  He probably would trade in his Sundance for a Cal if he were getting the best service available.  

I do think that if you are selling a mid-range spa (like say PDC) and giving your customers the best service in your area you can command a premium/top of the line price for your product.  Those prices come strictly from the dealer’s reputation not the manufacturers.  

[taz]

I have to chime in on ISO9001.

Coming from a heavy manufacturing industry, I am familiar with ISO.  It is a tool to use as part of your overall quality system. In fact, ISO is more of a documentation system than a quality system. It provides 3rd party verification that you have properly documented your manufacturing processes. It does not improve these processes, but as someone else indicated it should provide for manufacturing consistency. But you can still have consistently bad manufacturing processes and be ISO certified.

Marketeers tend to try to use ISO as a sales tool because it is a 3rd party verification which gives the impression that you have control of your processes.  I personally do not put much stock in ISO certification in any industry. It should be a part of any mfg company's quality system, but in and of itself it does not tell me much about the product.

Taz