phoenix spas

[tlc]

Ok , I just want some clarification, Is a phoenix spa different from a haven?? I know this is a sore topic, I know what everyone thinks of you know who. But Is there a difference between the two spas?
tlc

[SerjicalStrike]

From what I understand, Phoenix is it's own brand of spas.  Haven buys shells from Phoenix and installs the equipment.

[wmccall]

Perhaps somebody should repost the factory pictures? - Thats all I know about Pheonix besides whats on thier website.

[Chris_H]

TLC,

Yes there is a difference between the two brands.  However, nobody really knows exactly what those differences actually are.

First and foremost his spas are not tested to be electronically safe by either the UL or ETL.  You are more than welcome to go on either websites (ETL or UL) and you will not see Haven Spas listed.  You will however see Phoenix Spas listed.

I have been corresponding with him via his web board and he completely ignores the question of his spas being tested.  This is a blatant disregard for safety in my opinion and is probably the opinion of many other professionals on this web board.  He is the one building deathtraps.

I can forward you my correspondence with him if you private message me with your email address.

Chris H

[SerjicalStrike]

Please keep in mind Chris, that not being ETL or UL listed does not make a spa a deathtrap.  In searching UL I did not find Hotspring spas or Watkins listed for their tubs, only their pumps.  Does that make them deathtraps?  

The biggest problems I have with Haven's owner is the way he treats people that don't agree with him and the constant hammering of Hotspring spas.  

[Spatech_tuo]

From what I understand, Phoenix is it's own brand of spas.  Haven buys shells from Phoenix and installs the equipment.

Actually, they buy the entire spa from Phoenix, not just the shell. Jim (owner of Haven spas, self tilted "The Spa Specialist" who most everyone else refers to as "The Spa Deceptionist") then rebrands it by putting on new stickers, adding a fan in the equipment compartment and a few other trinkets though I'm not sure of all the "modifications". He the marks up the price and does his best to "convince" people they are specialty items.

I don't know Phoenix spas intimately but I'd imagine them to be a middle of the road spa. At least with Phoenix you get a local dealer where you can see/tough/feel/test the spa and who can support your needs to some degree. With Haven you're buying site unseen over the internet at inflated prices relative to the arguably exact Phoenix spa and you won't have anyone there to service you if/when you have issues.

If that doesn't worry you, the internet site chronicling the nightmare a couple of his customers went though with him plus the fact his bank is taking him to court for the money he owes them would be more than enough to scare away anyone logical person IMO.

[Chris_H]

SS,

“Please keep in mind Chris, that not being ETL or UL listed does not make a spa a deathtrap.  In searching UL I did not find Hotspring spas or Watkins listed for their tubs, only their pumps.  Does that make them deathtraps?”

You are right, Hotspring does not have a UL listing.  However, the testing requirements for UL and ETL are essentially the same.  They are ETL listed.  One is good enough for me, and obviously good enough for arguably the largest manufacturer of portable spas.  Haven Spas are not tested at all.  That is the difference.  It is a huge difference and a disregard for safety.

Chris

[stuart]

How about this;

[Chris_H]

That picture is always good for a laugh on a cold day.

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

Chris, I want to thank you and at least offer you a drink, if not an entire dinner. I haven't laughed as hard as I have lately, reading all that "dribble" at the other place......

By the way, you owe me a new keyboard. Mine shorted out when I was drinking coffee, read one of either your posts, or a response, and lost the entire cup laughing hysterically, and it spilled all down in my keyboard.........dang good thing I keep 2 or 3 extras on hand for just such emergencies!

[tlc]

Thank you all,
I really don't see much of a difference in the spas, I am looking for a new spa, came across his web, asked for info(have not received yet) and am very frustrated at this industry. Looked at HS and Bullfrog. Just wanted to spend under 8,000 for a great tub. Maybe I should just join a health club with one! Unfortunatly in Michigan we can't get a tub for awhile due to the snow!! I guess I'll stay frustrated for awhile. I certainly don't want a deathtrap! Especially since I have 3 little kids! My husband is an attorney and we have never heard of anyone being killed in a hot tub due to the tub suction, fire or anyother reason. certainly a child could drown but that would not be the manufactur or the companies fault!! I wish we could get back to the positives of ones hot tubs instead of slamming the competition!
TLC

[spahappy]

How about this;

Stuart, what is that big structure with the arms that look like they feed into the shop?

[stuart]

I'm not sure, Maybe it's an early D.A.I.T system to heat the building....

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

The factury use to be a wood mill. I believe what you're refering to is, or was, a dust (saw dust) collection system. On the left is basically a GIANT vacuum and the pipe leads to the building and the "outlets" for collecting the sawdust.

[Spatech_tuo]

Especially since I have 3 little kids! My husband is an attorney and we have never heard of anyone being killed in a hot tub due to the tub suction, fire or anyother reason. certainly a child could drown but that would not be the manufactur or the companies fault!!

You never need to explain why you're cautious with your kids’ safety but Jim is playing a flim flam game when he tries to get you to think his spas are safe and others aren't. First of all, those death traps he speaks of are a few old style in grounds made a while back that may have had only one intake. Nowadays all you have to do is check the portable spas and you'll find they have 2 intakes per pump AS REQUIRED. He then attacks Hot Springs saying they don't do this the same way but he fails to mention how they filter. They tie 2 separate intakes for each pump to 2 separate filters. These are in a filter housing separated from the main tub. It is inconceivable that someone could remove both filters and somehow crawl into the filter compartment and get stuck on both intakes and there are zero incidences of this that I know of and he knows of none also. Portable spas made nowadays as a whole don't have these issues that I know of (or that he knows of).

His use of this scare tactic would be akin to him selling you a 2005 Chevy Cavalier with the speech that it is MUCH safer than the car his neighbor owns because his neighbor's is poorly designed yet he fails to inform you that his neighbor owns a 1975 Ford Pinto. He loves to compare his apple to an orange and proclaim how much smoother the skin is on his fruit.

If the guy wanted to trade me 4 quarters for a dollar bill I'd make sure to bite down on the quarters to make sure they were real before I'd trust him.

http://www.poolandspa.com:8080/upload/spa%20specialist.jpg