Question about circ pumps

[Vinny]

After reading threads about cloudy water and other threads that state to adjust filter timing it got me thinking about the tub I'm going to buy.

The Artesian Island tubs with a circ pump don't have any additional filtering times. The filtering option is  used for the ozonator run time (I believe this is true for the Platinum and Gold series as well).

But the pump runs at 11 GPM and if I did my math correctly will filter my tub close to 40 times a day (400 gallon tub). My question is - do all circ pumps run at that volume? Or is this a higher volume circ pump than normal.

I guess a question would be does an Artesian tub with a circ pump have more water quality issues than other tubs?

As you can see I have time to think about the "stupid" things in life!

Thanks!

[Mendocino101]

Vinny,

I do not know the answer to your question but from what I understand 11gpm is fairly high for a circ pump Beachcombers offers one that runs at a higher GPM but from what I understand most are 6 or 7 gpm. My question if any knows the answer is are these circ pumps running at 6,7 11 GPM or are they running "UP TO" 6,7 11 depending on conditions.

[salesdvl]

I wanna say that Artesian has one of the higher flow circ pumps but do not know all of them to be sure.

The other thought I have is just how much filtering is "over-kill" now.  Yrs ago you could have a 2 speed motor kick on low a few times a day and as long as your chemilcals were good have no filtering issues. Even local codes for swimming pools state the water must be turned over only once in a 24hr period.  So spas turn the water over 40 x's a day.  Hot Spring has a 500 gal spa with over 300 sq ft of filtering area.  I sell pools that have 15,000 gallons with only 150 sq ft filters.

[Steve]

Filtration is only one aspect to good watercare. You can have a system that runs 24 hours a day and still have lousy water.

Beachcomber's is almost 30gpm but they use a 48 frame circ pump which draws 0.6 amps.

The key is drawing as little power as possible and filter as much as possible. One other benefit to Hydropool's Self Clean system. Sorry...

There are benefits when ozone is used to have longer filtration cycles but again, does the benefit outweigh the cost?

I suggest that a spa that filters 4 hours a day can have excellent water ( I know this first hand) when proper watercare is maintained.

Mendo - What do you mean by "conditions"? What conditions would cause these numbers to fluctuate other than age and deterioration of the impellor?

Steve

[Mendocino101]

Mendo - What do you mean by "conditions"? What conditions would cause these numbers to fluctuate other than age and deterioration of the impellor?

Steve

What about if the filters are dirty...I know  spas can be plumbed diffenretly.....as example some might have 90 degree bends some only use sweep elbows....all having to do with water flow so if a circ is rated at 7gpm but the spa is built differently than would it still pull 7gpm

[Vinny]

Thanks for the responses!

I knew about the Beachcomber pump and my assumption when asking was water chemistry is OK. I just have been reading "increase filtering time" and I started thinking maybe this could be a problem and possibly 40x a day water changes might not be enough.

Mendo,

I agree with the "conditions" - I'm sure that flow rates assume that the filter is new and everything is working perfectly.

Salesdvl,

I have my pool turning over the water over a little over once a day and at 13,000 I think I have a 36 SF filter (DE). I thought I read somewhere that tubs need a higher turnover rate.

Steve,

The sales brochure for Artesian says that the circ pump delivers real cost savings and perfect water is always waiting ... and who knows they may also throw in a microban filter for the circ pump too!

Thanks again!

[Steve]

What about if the filters are dirty...I know  spas can be plumbed diffenretly.....as example some might have 90 degree bends some only use sweep elbows....all having to do with water flow so if a circ is rated at 7gpm but the spa is built differently than would it still pull 7gpm

Some good points there Mendo.

Vinny - Well if the sales brochure says so..it must be true!

Steve

[stuart]

No, most circ pumps don't turn over that much water!

I'm not a huge fan of circ pumps and feel the only real benefit to them is constant ozonation. If you can accomplish the same thing not adding another system and potentially get more water turn over with the same or even less energy draw then why even put one in.

I have always been a fan of adding less systems, jets and plumbing is better....

It's a great selling tool though

[Vinny]

Stuart and Mendo,

I thought Marquis had a circ pump on their systems. I didn't have a chance to see one in person while looking, but I thought I saw it on their website or maybe they used to and took it off.



This brings up another question though and this applies to my tub as well since it has an adjustable ozonator timer - what good is ozone IF it's not running 24/7. If a non circ pump kicks on for 6 to 8 hours a day and only produces ozone for that time is ozone really doing anything? As for my tub - my dealer said to only have it running 8 hours a day - 2x4 hours. He said that all the tubs they set up only have their ozonators running for 8 hours and they have had no water problems.

[Mendocino101]

Vinny,

Marquis does not use a circ pump they strongly believe the benefits of hi flow filtering out weigh the advantage of 24 hour ozone...I think both when done properly can work well...

[empolgation]

This brings up another question though and this applies to my tub as well since it has an adjustable ozonator timer - what good is ozone IF it's not running 24/7.

That makes me think of a question as an answer... What good is shocking if you don't do it 24/7?

Not to belabor the ozone debate, ozone is "doing its job" as long as it's running but it is not known if its effectiveness reaches the point of diminishing return or not.

[Steve]

Ozone does not need to run 24 hours a day to offer a benefit. I tend to be of the belief that ozone running 24/7 can have more harmful effects on your cover, jets, pillows, etc than any benefit it will give.

8 hours in 24 is plenty for ozone to oxidize waste. Keep in mind that we're talking about a residential spa here and not a commercial setting.

Steve

[nicker]

I personnaly think that the more the water is filtered the better.  Why not it only makes sense. I guess if it was running for a 24 hour period with no one in the tub during those 24 hours it wouldn't be catching much in the filters.  But is it harming anything....I wouldn't think so.   My tub has a 24 hr circ pump, rated at 30 gal per minute and runs at .5 amps.    The one thing I do like about it is when I add my dichlor I don't have to sit there with the tub running for a while to mix it up. I just get out add it and swish it around with my hand shut the cover and in I go. I find the circ pump does a great job mixing it through out the water.  

[stuart]

Vinny,

Marquis does not use a circ pump they strongly believe the benefits of hi flow filtering out weigh the advantage of 24 hour ozone...I think both when done properly can work well...

The funny thing is that Marquis is truly a company that can say "Been there, done that" about many things. They did cir pumps for many years but the fail rate for both the pumps and the low flow heaters was more than they were happy with. When they took them out the cost of the tub actually went down!

Being fair I have to say that there have been many achievments in both circ pumps and low flow heaters since then....

[Vinny]

That makes me think of a question as an answer... What good is shocking if you don't do it 24/7?

Not to belabor the ozone debate, ozone is "doing its job" as long as it's running but it is not known if its effectiveness reaches the point of diminishing return or not.

Everything has a point of diminishing returns.

I have to say that "shocking" if your referring to chlorine is not needed 24/7 - chlorine/ bromine is needed to kill either bacteria and/or algae and once it has done it's job whether the initial dose is 100 PPM or 0.1 PPM it just sits there until it needs to do it again (I do know that in a spa it does get dissipated by the heat so it's not just sitting there). Once you kill with chlorine and or bromine you don't need any other item in the water to be there -  not N2 or ozone or anything else. I personally don't know how effective ozone is - the limited research that I have done leads me to believe that ozone isn't the disinfectant that it's said to be (in spas).  The best argument for ozone (and N2) was on Doc's board and it comes from a microbiologist - ozone (and N2) MAY help keep bacteria down once chlorine does it's killing. I can agree to this statement.

All of the articles I've read said ozone must be on 24/7 in order to do any good. My dealer and now Steve have been the only ones (as far as I know) who have said  24/7 isn't needed. Maybe others have said it but I didn't see their posts.