New tub

[nicker]

Yesterday I went with a friend looking at tubs.  I already have one but he is now ready to make the purchase.  Unfortunatly he lives in another city and would like to purchase a tub from a dealer closer to him other wise I would bring him to my dealer.  Well it was funny as the tub he wanted to show me was an Artic.  Lone behold I returned from looking at it and came to this forum and there was a 5 page post on Artic.   The post that really caught my eye was from "ebirrane"  I read all they posted and related them to my findings when I viewed the tub.   I recently spent 4 months looking at tubs for my self so I am somewhat educated on what the differences are.    I am not knocking the way they build a tub (I realize every company is some what different) but many of ebirrane's points seem very relivent to me.  The covers this dealer has did seem pretty good.  How ever the way they leave an empty air space with the pumps in that air space, Having the pumps have 0 venting ability seem odd to me.  I am no mechanic but I do know that high heat and motors to not mix well.  I did ask the dealer on that and they said the pumps are rated to with stand the heat.  Anyway I also think you would have a very hard time keeping the heat where you would want it in the summer.  Any way the other tub we looked at was a Hot springs.  I know they get very good ratings.  But what the heck is with 5 filters!!!!  That would cost a quit a bit to care for and replace when needed.  Can anyone comment on that?

Thanks

[Brewman]

The debate over keeping the pumps in heated air (thermopane insulation) or keeping the heat in the water and the pumps in cooler air (full foam) generates a lot of debate.  There is no clear cut winner, either style works if done correctly.  
As for the Hot Springs filter count.............

CHAS?

Brewman

[Chas]

But what the heck is with 5 filters!!!!  That would cost a quit a bit to care for and replace when needed.  Can anyone comment on that?

HotSpring plumbs their spas so that all of the water moving through any of the pumps is filtered. To accomplish this, and avoid putting any suction fittings in the bather area, they use multiple filters. I can tell you two very important things:

1. It works very well. One of the filters is on the small circ pump which runs constantly. That system keeps the water in motion, filters a bit at all times, and ends up saving you energy by maintaining very constant water temperatures and allowing the heat to come on whenever needed without running a larger pump. And when you run the jets - which generally only happens when you are using the tub - you get a huge amount of filtration. In fact a HS can filter in ten minutes what a bypass system would take over an hour to do.

2. It is not really all that much more expensive in the long run. By counting on the small circulation system for day-to-day filtration, as well as heating and general movement of water in every part of the tub, you save money over running a larger pump on a timer system of some sort. This will offset the cost of a couple extra filters. BTW - I sell the filters for $25 each, the Sundance dealer down the road sells his one large filter for around $90 - the newer systems use a smaller main filter and a $15 disposable.

These systems both work great - don't let the competitors scare you away from them by insinuating that they cost a bunch more, of if you came to that conclusion on your own, I would say, 'look closer."

I think that between Sundance and HotSpring, you are looking at the two best filtration systems available. That saves you time - time is a very valuable thing - and makes it easier for you to enjoy your tub. That means you will get more return on your investment.

The ultimate irony of this is the customer who looks into the filter area of a HotSpring spa, and panics over the imagined fortune they will spend on filters - and goes and buys a tub which costs them an extra $10 or $20 per month to operate. They could buy one new filter for their HS every couple of months and still be ahead - but in fact the filters last several years.

Also, by asking your dealer to include one extra filter, or by upgrading to the more expensive Tri-X filters, you can extend the life of the filters by many more years. You can also spend less time with our system: the circulation pump filter gets dirty faster than the other fitlers. You can clean just this one, or have a spare to rotate in, or simply rotate one of the other fitlers into place on the circ pump.

There is a reason HotSpring is the leader - think twice when you hear competitors talking about them.

[UnderTheStars]

Yeah!  tell 'em Chas!

Seriously though, as a total newb and first time tub owner (5 months - HotSpring) I love the multiple filter thing.  I've come to appreciate the benefits and taking care of them is nooo big deal. . .We shopped & looked quite a bit on this one.

[ebirrane]

Hey Nicker,

 I'm glad you found my posts helpful.  Those views were my opinion and mostly are meant to take the wind out of what, to me, is a very misleading (and somewhat standardized) sales pitch.  
 
 I like the hot spring filtration system, but that shouldn't be a surprise as I own a HS and have clear water.  More filters means you have to cycle the water through the tub less often, allowing you to get away with a circulation pump.  In my opinion, and there are threads on this here, having a circ. pump is a good thing. Or more generally accepted -- it is not a bad thing.

 I also like having > 1 filter because if one filter gets gunked up, you have others to pick up the slack.   I prefer redundancy in most systems, especially ones that keep me from sitting in water filled with dead things.

 If I remember correctly the HS tri-X filters last for over 7 years (Chas, am I wrong here?) They look like they have very deep  "hard plastic" like pleats and can be cleaned by a run through the dishwasher.  When my normal filters are "used up" (another year or so, I think) we will upgrade to the tri-x.  But I think many new HS models come with the tri-x standard.

 The reason others systems have a disposable filter (and if I remember right, you dispose of it every time you clean the other filter) is that the things clog so quickly.  

 When cousin Jimmy's kid throws chocolate sauce and pizza in the hot tub I'd rather drain the water, refill and, while filling, drop my filters in the dishwasher for 30 minutes than have to truck down to my dealer and drop another $100 or more on filters.  Of course, the best thing to do is just tie up Jimmy's kid but, in seriousness, accidents do happen.

-Ed

[Brewman]

The microfilter on the Sundance costs about 15, and lasts between water changes, for me anyway.  
So I'm at about $60 per year for those, plus the wear and tear on the main filter, which is supposed to last 3 years, so another $20 per year or so for that.  

Brewman