PleaseREAD HORSEPOWER LIES

[SpaSalesMan]

As I stated, though few people read it.  Horsepower is the most misleading, bsing,lie in the industry. Withought defusing the lie quickly, lets talk engineering.  If I plumb a spa with a ton of bends in the plumbing, 90degree angle etc. dont you think that would effect the flow of water in the spa? Hot springs sales people will teach you about a term called LAMINAR FLOW! this term means that the plumbing in the spa has the easiest path to the spa, instead of 90degree angles it has 45degree angles. This decreases the need for Horsepower and increases the gallons per minute that travel through the spas pumps, and the psi (pounds per square inch) that come out of the jets. Engineering is the main difference on spa design.  Here is the problem with explaining this for you, you can not compare spa plumbing, its hidden by the manufacturer.  I used to have fun with a local Coast Spa dealer in my area.  When I would sign up for a show booth at one of the large trade shows, I would intentionally want the booth right next to his.  This was when I was selling Sundance. Sundance is a reputable manufacturer that advertises 2.5 horsepower pumps (and they are the most powerfull out there).  I would here the guy across from me tell a customer 7 horsepower, then I would state "only 2.5 here folks" When i would Hit the Jets, BOOM the water from the accupressure seat, moving 190 GPM would throw water across the isle into their booth.  I would then ask the dealer to turn on his jets, when he did, aww cute water is moving at about 75gpm (he hates me).Well whats my point? Spas are an electrical appliance plugged or hardwired into a breaker capable of drawing a certain number of amps (usually 50). In order to meet code, an appliance can only draw 80% of the breakers maximum capacity.  In this example, i am using a 50 amp breaker, so I can only have a spa pull up to 40 amps. To find out horsepower on a jet pump, do not look in a brochure, ask how many amps it draws. ( if the salesman doesnt know, he doenst know the horsepower either). There is a formula to determin horsepower Volts X Amps = Watts.  Most spas are 240volts. So lets find out how many amps 7 Horse would draw, if it did exist. 240 X "x" = 7.00 Using my calculator X=29.3 Amps per pump. Well turning on both pumps would draw 58.6 Amps on a 50 amp breaker that can only handle 40 amps to meet code. The breaker would trip every time you turned the power on. Most people want to run a spas heater and jets at the same time, heck all manufacturers advertise that their spas can do this.  A 5.5 killowatt heater pulls 23.0 Amps (5.5kw is a standard in the industry) If a spa can handle running both pumps and a heater at the same time the maximum horsepower on the 2 pumps would be 9 amps or around 2.2 horsepower. Now on the sundance i sold, it had a 60 amp braeker. But wow, I just told you nearly every manufacturer is misleading the consumer on horsepower, yes that right.

[Dick Davidson]

You talk engineering.....How about the fact that some spas use "Manifold Systems" as you would have in hydraulic brakes, etc.
With the Mainfold system the work load on the pump is effectively decreased, the intense pressure at the end of an open line plumbing system is eliminated because the load and pressure are dispersed throughout the unit.   AH HAH....but it costs a little more for this type of system.....but it works better lasts longer, and requires less service.

What this really mweans is that the overall cost of buying, maintaining, and operating a spa is less over the long haul.
THE TRUE PRICE/VALUE of a spa.

Lets tell the "Whole" truth.....do your homework better before you slam your competition

[RBoehme]

I don't believe that spa salesman is trying to slam his competition as much as bring to light that nearly the entire spa industry misleads customers buy saying thier pumps are a certain horsepower when they in fact are not. The manufacturers do this by using phrases like "brake horse power" which is different than continuous horse power which is actually what you get. I also dont see in his statement anywhere that he said anything negative about the manifold system at all. His post was about pumps. NOT plumbing.

[SpaSalesMan]

Gee Mr. Davidson, you back my statement perfectly.  I did mention Sundance in my post and how effective their desing is in relation to performance.  Sundance uses a manifold system.  I waqs really talking about Horsepower in relation to performance, which the design you speek of (Manifolds) is a highly effective system.  I agree with you 100% and question the way in which you interpreted my statements.  Whats with your hostility? I have stated that all of my posts are "MY POINION" and it seems your opinion shares the same common preferences, its nice to have you aboard.  And thanks to RBohme for the clarification.

[Chas]

Chas;

Based on his comments here, I don't think that SpaSalesman is "he who we shall not mention". He seems pro-HS and SD

MTC

HTM

Oh I know!  That's what made it all the more interesting - the style is so similar but the message is very different. There was a time that 'he' posed as a HotSpring salesperson and began trying to look bad - I was just wondering if there was a precedent.

Just makes for entertaining reading.

[windsurfdog]

Very interesting that the first four posts in this thread are all from guests.......could our illustrious jimmyboy be arguing with himself yet again?........

[Chas]

Well that was my first guess, but since the posts are so old the profiles may simply have been deleted,

or


banned.....

[HotTubMan]

Oh I know!  That's what made it all the more interesting - the style is so similar but the message is very different. There was a time that 'he' posed as a HotSpring salesperson and began trying to look bad - I was just wondering if there was a precedent.

Just makes for entertaining reading.

You are very correct Chas (man I hate sayin' that). After moving this one to the front, I went back to read some more. I saw one where he was calling out Spatech. Very viscious and he was then bashing HS. So I thought I would delete my comments (which you have preserved) and hopefully make the thread go to the back page again, but it dosn't work like that....

[Chas]

Nope. Can't drop it.

But if you want to go bump the one where I made it to the Millenium point, it would start it moving to the bottom....