question for coleman dealers???

[HotTubMan]

As I said earlier in the thread, there is no consumer more paranoid about their purchase than one that has visited Arctic.

I sell Colemans. I do not claim they are the most energy efficient. I claim they are good, and near the top of the class, but not the best.

Until there is an independant test (not one a manufacturer paid for) commissioned by a government /consumer protection agency, all of the studies are tainted! Period.

I do not open the "easier to service" can of worms either. If the customer suggests it I say this before I agree:
"95% of leaks on all tubs, FF or TP, occur in near the equipment at a union, not at a glued jet fitting or manifold. Most leaks will ocur with in the first3 months while it is still covered, otherwise you will likely have to wait a long time for it to happen. But IF you are a DIY'er and IF you get a leak outside of warranty, the TP will be easier to fix."

It may be because I sell both that I appear to sit on the fence. Yoube the judge.

HTM

[zzaphod42]

Our product makes sense.  Recovering the waste heat from the motors makes sense.  Having access to repair the spa in the event of a problem makes sense.  Having a floor on your spa makes sense.  Having a cover that can handle a heavy snow load, insulates better and doesn't absorb water as easy makes sense.  Making your spa shell thicker and stronger so that it will last longer makes sense.  Building a cabinet with sturdy materials, like Cedar and extruded Aluminum, so they last longer makes sense.

Makes Sense

I think I read that somewhere...maybe while watching twelve guys jump up and down on a cover.

[ZzTop]

Tell me also about the heat loss during the 16 hours (most) a day the tub is not producing motor heat?

Get your facts straight before you read us a pitch taught to you during a sales conference!!!!!

The pitch that irks me the most with Arctic is that they claim their hot tubs do not need a heater.  How stupid do they think we are?

I completely agree with Stuart.

Regards Zz

[mike82]

 Oh and BTW, on the Arctic website they make the statement “inspired by one of the most successfully adapted cold-weather animals in the world, the great white Polar Bear”, I have news for you, God made the Polar Bear with full insulation and no “dead air space” (or should that be “dead bear space”). Maybe he should have consulted some of the single moms (another Arctic pitch) working at Arctic before creating them.
 

Well, I have news for you too, God did make the Polar Bear with dead air space.  

"The white fur of the polar bear  provides excellent insulation from the cold, even when they are swimming in the Arctic Ocean. The outer guard hairs form a layer that protects the inner fur from getting wet when the polar bear is in the ocean. These guard hairs are hollow and filled with air. Thus, they always have a layer of trapped air surrounding their bodies.  After a swim they need only give a quick shake and they are nearly dry. There is also a thick layer of blubber that helps insulate the polar bear from the cold."  taken from www.biosbcc.net

"Hollow and filled with air" doesn't exactly sound like full insulation to me.


Also, this is why humans develop goosebumps when we get cold which causes our hair to stand upright cold.  

"What do goosebumps have to do with hair?
Everything! When you are chilled, or startled, you sometimes develop goosebumps. What are they? Temporary bumps on your skin caused by muscles attached to hair follicles pulling those hairs upright! Goosebumps actually serve a purpose in animals. Fluffing up fur or feathers helps trap air and make them warmer or make them look bigger and scarier."  taken from kids.discovery.com


I'm not saying anything about which insulation design is better, I'm just correcting an incorrect statement.
mike

[JPKeirstead]

The pitch that irks me the most with Arctic is that they claim their hot tubs do not need a heater.  How stupid do they think we are?

Regards Zz

Actually, the test conducted by the Alberta Research Council tested three main criteria to evaluate the spas thermal performance:
1) Specific Steady-state power demand (W/m3)
2) Steady-state power consumption(W)
3) Cooling time (CT, h)

I suggest you read the report before you suggest anyone is trying to insult your intelligence.

[JPKeirstead]

So which keirstead do we have the pleasure of debating with here, James or John?

I’m sorry if I sound snide but I really don’t like Arctic’s consumer confusing pitch.

I am James, and I am sorry if I sound defensive, but I really don't like to read all these uneducated, disparaging remarks about a product that we work so hard to make the best.  You and some other spa salespeople on this site may not think our way makes sense, that's fine.  We don't believe in many other manufacturers methods make sense either.  

I don't think how we educate the customer is confusing.  I do agree that it is in direct contravention to what most others say.  I don't mind.  I have never been one to blindly follow the pack.

[JPKeirstead]

Yeh I agree... comments like "Our method of insulating a spa is more efficient" makes a joke out of industry doesn't it? :-/

BTW JPKeirstead, that was your quote!  

Can you say BRAINWASHED boys and girls?

Steve  

I don't see how my comment makes a joke out to the industry.  I just believe our method is superior.

I am not Brainwashed, and neither are dealers or customers.  

[HotTubMan]

This would JP's second opportunity to address my comment on reliability of studies Arctic commissioned. I IM'd him and he side stepped it there. I thought if I posted he would at least acknowledge the comment.

HTM

[empolgation]

Well, I have news for you too, God did make the Polar Bear with dead air space.  

"The white fur of the polar bear  provides excellent insulation from the cold, even when they are swimming in the Arctic Ocean. The outer guard hairs form a layer that protects the inner fur from getting wet when the polar bear is in the ocean. These guard hairs are hollow and filled with air. Thus, they always have a layer of trapped air surrounding their bodies.  After a swim they need only give a quick shake and they are nearly dry. There is also a thick layer of blubber that helps insulate the polar bear from the cold."  taken from www.biosbcc.net

"Hollow and filled with air" doesn't exactly sound like full insulation to me.

Pretty much every single hair on the polar bear is an enclosed tube; not exactly a vacuum but the air is insulated by the keratin that makes up the hair. Kinda similar to how foam work... a dense network of air tubes. And that "thick layer of blubber that 'helps' insulate" can be more than 4 inches thick. Together that could easily be considered "full insulation".

How that relates to the design of an Arctic spa, I haven't a clue.

[stuart]

Wouldn't that mean then that Arctic is backwards? Shouldn't the insulation go on the shell and plumbing and then the "dead air" space go to the outside with a shell around it?

BTW James, do I really sound that uneducated in the spa industry to you? If your going to NSPI maybe we should meet and you educate me on how great your product is but don't sell me on your opinion, show me first hand how your insulation won't fail and why a rail type system is so good, in addition to several other things Arctic does. I would love for you to take the time, in fact I can probably arrange several of the regulars on this board to be there and be open minded for the education, what do you think....?