Grandee Comparison Charts

[NightOne]

Oh the things some sales guys will say...

Was at a Sundance/Jacuzzi dealer yesterday and here is some of things I was told:

1. Motomassage uses bearings that wear out after 6 months. Also, it glides along a track that wears out and needs to be replaced too.

2. Hot Spring uses a steel heater and it costs $400 more for the titanium one

3. Hot Spring has a pro-rated warranty with deductibles.

Funny thing is, every time I go to another spa dealer and mention anything about Hot Spring, they whip out a book that shows a comparison between them and a Hot Spring Grandee. Of course theirs always comes out looking better.

It's affirming my decision on selecting the HS Grandee.

Is Grandee beating these other guys up that bad?

The guy also says that Spazazz and other similar products are bad for your tub since they go in the water. He said the Optima uses air injection for aromatherapy. Sounded like something until I got home and looked at the Sundance brochure which states that it uses air to release it INTO the water.

Overall, the only thing I saw about Sundance that was appealing that HS didn't have was the air.

Finally, one of the funniest things was that the sales guy was showing me on the dry tub that you could turn the jets. He said "everytime you turn it, it does something different". I said "like a shower massager shower head?" and he said "Yes". When I tried it on the wet tub I found that it had exactly 2 positions: full stream and and alternating pulsating setting. He had previously made it sound like there were 4 of 5 different things it was going to do. "Everytime you turn it" ... yup from left to right and back.

[stuart]

Sounds like he's doing a great job selling Hotspring by working at the SD dealership. I wonder if he is really lying or just guessing and hasn't done any research himself! Either way he has to be brand new or an idiot not to figure out that what he’s saying is not working and chasing people away.

I really appreciate when a customer tells me what they are looking at so that I can give a side-by-side comparison of our product and our dealership both. If we lose a sale it’s not because people didn’t like us nor because the product didn’t compare; it’s usually due to either a better price point or a specific jet hitting right where they wanted or just getting tired of shopping and falling for a slick “pitch”.

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard “He offered me his floor model that usually sells for over $10,000 for only $6000”! I wish I could afford to leave $4000 on the table all of the time, they must have on heck of a mark up! I just pity the fool that buys it for 10K. Funny I said to a customer yesterday, “if you couldn’t see a value in it for a $4K discount and came back to me to buy, who do you think would be stupid enough to buy it at $10K!”

Most people don’t just buy a spa, they buy a relationship with the salesman and dealership so you’d better give them your honest 100% least they see through it. More people buy because they liked and trusted the salesman than because of the sheer feature or price of the unit!

[Chas]

Oh the things some sales guys will say...

Was at a Sundance/Jacuzzi dealer yesterday and here is some of things I was told:

1. Motomassage uses bearings that wear out after 6 months. Also, it glides along a track that wears out and needs to be replaced too.

No to both. It has a five year warranty, parts and labor, and there are no bearings to fail, and it's designed not to rub anything. You don't have to believe me (or him) on that one, just think it through for yourself: we have had the Moto Massage Jet for over 20 years. We outsell all other makers. Would either of those things be true if the Moto fell apart after six months??

2. Hot Spring uses a steel heater and it costs $400 more for the titanium one

HotSpring uses a Titanium heater. It has a five year no fault warranty.

3. Hot Spring has a pro-rated warranty with deductibles.

This one is especially funny because the truth is available, in writing!! You can download the complete warranty from the HotSpring web site, or just open the back page of the nearest handy HotSpring brochure.

Funny thing is, every time I go to another spa dealer and mention anything about Hot Spring, they whip out a book that shows a comparison between them and a Hot Spring Grandee. Of course theirs always comes out looking better.

Oh yes....

It's affirming my decision on selecting the HS Grandee.

Well, it's not a bad spa.......

Is Grandee beating these other guys up that bad?

Well, HotSpring does sell more tubs than any other maker in the world. That doesn't tend to make friends among the people trying to compete.

The guy also says that Spazazz and other similar products are bad for your tub since they go in the water. He said the Optima uses air injection for aromatherapy. Sounded like something until I got home and looked at the Sundance brochure which states that it uses air to release it INTO the water.

Well, HotSpring has made tubs without blowers for about 27 years, and has outsold every other brand made. So I can't say that a blower is a "must" on a hot tub. So if you want to add fragrances, go ahead. You have a much wider choice of smells in the liquid variety, and they are much more adjustable: add a little, add a lot, your choice. And you can buy them from a dozen places, none of which happen to be a spa dealer...

Overall, the only thing I saw about Sundance that was appealing that HS didn't have was the air.

You mean that system which cools the water, oxidizes the sanitizer out of the water and puts it in the form of a dense cloud right at eye level, while making noise and splashing you in the face? No, we don't have that...

Finally, one of the funniest things was that the sales guy was showing me on the dry tub that you could turn the jets. He said "everytime you turn it, it does something different". I said "like a shower massager shower head?" and he said "Yes". When I tried it on the wet tub I found that it had exactly 2 positions: full stream and and alternating pulsating setting. He had previously made it sound like there were 4 of 5 different things it was going to do. "Everytime you turn it" ... yup from left to right and back.

Well, it's possible that he was talking about a HotSpring tub: our smallest jets can be run with the regular nozzle,
open (no nozzle= mellow),
or a spinner nozzle.

The medium jets do the same except the don't offer a spin nozzle (yet), and

the large jets have all the same options: regular directional nozzle, open, and spinner nozzles.

The MotoMassage jet is unique, of course, and then there's the Soothing Seven jets.

Hmm - lost count, but that's over eight different jets/jet combinations.

And then you begin to play around with the air/water mix, and the diverter systems. Most of the jets have a valve built in to adjust the air for that one jet: it changes that jet but doesn't mess with any other jets in the tub. Some of the jets are in groups (usually the smallest ones) and those have an air control for the whole group. Tons of options -

[ebirrane]

1. Motomassage uses bearings that wear out after 6 months. Also, it glides along a track that wears out and needs to be replaced too.

2. Hot Spring uses a steel heater and it costs $400 more for the titanium one

3. Hot Spring has a pro-rated warranty with deductibles.

 

What's so pathetic about it is the *best* FUD is that which is hard to confirm either way.  Stuff like this is too easy to disprove.

I mean, if he needs to bash others to sell his wares so be it, but at least be intelligent about it.  Although, frankly, if he can only sell sundance by bashing others then sounds like intelligence is not the strong point here!

Good luck with your search.  The grandee is a terrific tub.

-Ed

[NightOne]

  

What's so pathetic about it is the *best* FUD is that which is hard to confirm either way.  Stuff like this is too easy to disprove.

I mean, if he needs to bash others to sell his wares so be it, but at least be intelligent about it.  Although, frankly, if he can only sell sundance by bashing others then sounds like intelligence is not the strong point here!

Good luck with your search.  The grandee is a terrific tub.

-Ed

I'm really not searching. In my own way, I'm just confirming that that I'm not missing something that is out there. I call it due diligence. It's driving my wife crazy. She keeps asking me why I keep looking at tubs when we already have money down on the Grandee.

If someone can convince ME that there is better tub which also appeals to all of my requirements then I'll certainly give them a chance. However, I haven't found any yet.

[NightOne]

Chas,

I guess I forgot to mention in my original message that I knew all of those were BS.

As far as the air thing goes, I had never heard those points before. My thinking was that it might be nice to sit in the tub sometimes with only bubbling water. I suppose in a Grandee you could put the jets on only on the opposite side of the tub from yourslef to achieve similar results?

[salesdvl]

"You mean that system which cools the water, oxidizes the sanitizer out of the water and puts it in the form of a dense cloud right at eye level, while making noise and splashing you in the face? No, we don't have that.."

Hey Chas, I love that.  I have used parts of it but have not had it summed up like that.  awesome.

[salesdvl]

I just thought of something else.

I once had a customer that was shopping between me ( hot spring ) and Sundance and they came back into my store to get their deposit back to go buy the Sundance.  When I asked why she said that her dad was elderly and had high blood pressure and that the Sundance salesperson had pointed out that with HIS spa if her dad started to get over heated she could turn on the air blower and it would bring cold air into the spa and cool him off.  ......  I looked at her and said " Well, I guess if my dad started to get over heated I would just have him stand up & get out."   She looked at me with the " boy am I stupid" look on her face and said "you're right, never mind."

[Chas]

Chas,
 I suppose in a Grandee you could put the jets on only on the opposite side of the tub from yourslef to achieve similar results?

Yes - you can aim the two lower JetStream jets at each other, and you'll get a very nice overall massage - however the air volume is much lower than a blower system. AND the air mxing in with the water comes from the pump shroud on the jet pumps, so it's not cool (or cold) outside air.
There are a lot of reasons that a 'whirlpool' is a good thing in a hot tub - one of which is that it keeps the water moving around your skin, so that you get the full benefit of the heat. If you sit real still in non-moving water, you begin to feel cooler as the water right next to your skin cools just a bit.

[Jordy]

Hello NightOne,
It pains me as a Dealer to hear stories like this, it especially pains me as a Jacuzzi Premium Spas Dealer to hear stories like this. As a former salesman for HotSprings, I can honestly say from experience that the Grandee is a top-notch product. The comments made by the Sundance/Jacuzzi salesman are both inaccurate and embarrassing. It is exactly this type of poor salesmanship and lack of knowledge and integrity that continues to make a difficult decision even more difficult for consumers. I wouldn't purchase a $5 Rubber Duck from that salesperson, never mind a $10 000 hot tub. Good Luck in your search. By the way, where do you live? I only ask because in Canada there is a specific effort to ensure that the Sundance and Jacuzzi product lines are not represented by the same Dealership.

[NightOne]

Jordy,

I am in the greater Chicago area. (suburbs)

The Sundance/Jacuzzi dealer is actually one of those big pool, patio, pool table, etc. stores. They have 18 stores in the area.

[Jordy]

Hi NightOne,
They won't have 18 stores for long if they continue to employ these type of salespeople.

[salesdvl]

Yes they will.  Unfortunately they have been doing it for years.  I compete with them on a daily basis and many times our sales presentation is spent trying to undue the wrongs they have been told by them.  They do get an "A" for creativity though.  Some of the crap they come up with ( see my above posting ) is very creative and unfortunately alot of customers buy into it.
I could go on & on with examples of the crap they've done.
I'm glad you saw through it Nightone.