More jets equals more leaks?

[TubbinSoon, now we be tubbin]

Now seeing more jets than ever on some new models on the web. Do you think that more fittings, and connections equals more potential leaks. Or just more swirls in the water?

[ZzTop]

Yes your odds are higher, with the greater number of jets.

However that is not the only factor.  How well is the tub engineered and built.  Are the plumbing, pipes properly supported?  Poor pipe support is a major cause of leaks as the tub ages.

Regards Zz

[spahappy]

Yes your odds are higher, with the greater number of jets.

However that is not the only factor.  How well is the tub engineered and built.  Are the plumbing, pipes properly supported?  Poor pipe support is a major cause of leaks as the tub ages.

Regards Zz

Give it a rest Zz,

There is no evidence anywhere that supports you claim.

If that were true then a 5+ year old Sundance or any other F.F. spa will never have a pumbing leak.

The first  Coleman spa I had developed two leaks in ten years. one was a pump seal and the other a gasket on the heator.

Spahappy

[windsurfdog]

Do you think that more fittings, and connections equals more potential leaks.

The more important question is "Do you think that more jets result in a better spa experience?"  Some would say yes, others no....that and spa production costs are why all spas are not created equal.  A well crafted spa with 100 jets is much less likely to leak than a poorly crafted spa with 10 jets.  Much better to concentrate on the therapy and overall craftmanship of the spa........

[salesdvl]

I love this forum.  I find it very entertaining. Someone asks a question..Someone else types a response and then someone else reads it and goes "ARRRGGGG" and pounds out another response.  I love it.  It would be fun to be sitting around a big round table with you guys and gals. (or maybe not) :-)      Anyway my thoughts on the more jets = more problems question are:  The key is to buy a good brand.  Buying a quality brand with 100 jets is much better than buying a crappy one with only 10 jets.  I do think full foam supports the plumbing in general better.  But this is not a FF or TP question.      I would suggest looking for the types of jets that you think feel better ( you should test soak all of your final choices )  the quality of the massage is more important than the number of jets.  For example, the Hot Spring moto massage jets covers the entire back but only counts as 1 jet.    Good luck.  

[salesdvl]

Wow, that was weird... I was typing my long winded response and when I posted it I noticed I got edged out.  And they stole my exact example jet counts.   ARRRRRGGGG.  Great minds think alike.  I need to learn type faster than windsurf.  :-)

[windsurfdog]

Wow, that was weird... I was typing my long winded response and when I posted it I noticed I got edged out.  And they stole my exact example jet counts.   ARRRRRGGGG.  Great minds think alike.  I need to learn type faster than windsurf.  :-)

Wow, salesdvl, that WAS a major coincidence!  Nice to be considered a "great mind", thank you (though there are others here that would debate that!  bubba stu?  )  I guess we had some sort of "mind meld" happening at the same time (where is Spock anyways?)--or as Yogi said, it's deja vu all over again........

[Chas]

I guess we had some sort of "mind meld" happening at the same time (where is Spock anyways?)-

Sitting in his solar-heated redwood hot tub without jets.

Soak long and prosper.....


I think you have all made good points: the first thing to consider is whether or not more jets make the tub more enjoyable. And that is best found out via a wet test, and talking to folks who own the product. Then look for a company who backs the warranty well.

[stuart]

Give it a rest Zz,

There is no evidence anywhere that supports you claim.

If that were true then a 5+ year old Sundance or any other F.F. spa will never have a pumbing leak.

The first Coleman spa I had developed two leaks in ten years. one was a pump seal and the other a gasket on the heater.

Spahappy

Spahappy,
I think you might have taken ZZ's post as an attack on your brand yet I don't think he was opening a TP/FF debate, I think he was trying to make a point that some brands put nothing on the plumbing to support it.  I think that MAAX is one of the companies out there that does TP right! They do support the plumbing with foam. As the leak issues with the older Sundance spas, that was due to bad glue.

Now seeing more jets than ever on some new models on the web. Do you think that more fittings, and connections equals more potential leaks. Or just more swirls in the water?

TubbinSoon, adding more jets to a spa add more holes to a shell, more manifolds, more glue joints, more plumbing lines, more fittings, more pumps or diverters and more potential problems. My personal belief is that if you can accomplish what you want with less you will be better off in the long run. In fact I’m a huge proponent of simplifying everything in the spas! The problem with this is the most of the consumers out there have been programmed to WOW factor and if you don’t offer more gadgetry and more sex appeal, you will be left behind in the market.

Wow, salesdvl, that WAS a major coincidence!  Nice to be considered a "great mind", thank you (though there are others here that would debate that!  bubba stu?  )

Actually Windy, although you and I differ greatly on our outlook on spa brands and we debated quite heavily, you earned my respect in battle and that's one of the hardest ways to win respect. You and I have a common level of thought on different polarities..... That probably means you have a "Scary Mind" rather than a great one.  

[windsurfdog]

Actually Windy, although you and I differ greatly on our outlook on spa brands and we debated quite heavily, you earned my respect in battle and that's one of the hardest ways to win respect. You and I have a common level of thought on different polarities..... That probably means you have a "Scary Mind" rather than a great one.  

LOL to the "Scary Mind".....especially appropriate this close to Halloween!  And so have you won my respect as well, my friend--actually I think only our MS experiences have given a perceived polarity--that both our minds share rather "scary" characteristics....  

[poolboy34]

As usual Stuart hit the nail on the head.  More jets equals more joints and manifolds to be glued.  This leads to a greater chance of human error occuring.  In my limited experience it seems that most leaks occur at pump seals/gaskets, and union o-rings.  After that I would say the next common culprit would be a joint where the glue failed.  In general is there a greater chance of leaks occuring with larger jet counts??  I would say yes, but the chances of leaks occuring due to failed glued joints is decreasing every year as manufacturing processes and technology advances.

I agree with Stuart, MAAX does a good job with the TP design, as we used to sell their Infinity line of spas (now Elite spas).  They have a layer of Sprayed foam covering the plumbing and the underside of the spa shell, and then have a layer of insulation on the backsides of the panels creating the warm air cavity.  I would say that their Coleman line has the better insulation compared to the elite spas line.  

Jason,
Store Manager for a D-1 & Caldera Dealer

[stuart]

As usual Stuart hit the nail on the head.  More jets equals more joints and manifolds to be glued.  This leads to a greater chance of human error occuring.  In my limited experience it seems that most leaks occur at pump seals/gaskets, and union o-rings.  After that I would say the next common culprit would be a joint where the glue failed.  In general is there a greater chance of leaks occuring with larger jet counts??  I would say yes, but the chances of leaks occuring due to failed glued joints is decreasing every year as manufacturing processes and technology advances.

I agree with Stuart, MAAX does a good job with the TP design, as we used to sell their Infinity line of spas (now Elite spas).  They have a layer of Sprayed foam covering the plumbing and the underside of the spa shell, and then have a layer of insulation on the backsides of the panels creating the warm air cavity.  I would say that their Coleman line has the better insulation compared to the elite spas line.  

Jason,
Store Manager for a D-1 & Caldera Dealer

Jason,
I don't know what the new changes are since the buyout but in the past I thought it was the other way around with Coleman and Elite; Elite used a 5lb density closed cell while Coleman used a 2lb open cell. I liked the 5lb for the extra support but I believe they will all have the same foam from here out.

Many manufactures are getting onboard with what Marquis has done for awhile at the glue joints, barbed fittings, glue and clamp all three for added protection.

[poolboy34]

Again, you've hit the nail on the head.  D-1 started using glue, barb fittings, and clamps on all of the plumbing joints this year.  I'm not sure on what density of foam MAAX used on the Infinity line of spas.  We stopped carrying just as the merger started, b/c of the merger their tubs no longer fit into the price point we wanted to reach with them so they got squeezed out.  We also had trouble getting stuff from them out of their canadien offices (owners manuels, replacement parts, call backs).  A lot of thosde problems might have been due to the merger though.  It';s too bad, they make a great product.

Jason,
Store manager for a D-1 & Caldera Dealer

[Mendocino101]

Again, you've hit the nail on the head.  D-1 started using glue, barb fittings, and clamps on all of the plumbing joints this year.  
Jason,
Store manager for a D-1 & Caldera Dealer

hummmm sounds like they are now building it like a Marquis.....

[salesdvl]

Windsurf,  Next time I get to lead.