Using Natural Gas & other questions

[Andy-VA]

  Im new to this forum and a new shopper for a spa. Ive been reading this forum for about 6 hours now....you people have alot of info here. So far Ive looked around on the internet and have only visited 1 showroom today that is 5 miles from my house. They sell Cal Spas. After reading the reviews and the forum, Ive decided against them and will visit some other showrooms in Virginia Beach in the next few days. One of my questions is, Do they make hot tubs with a natural gas option? I can do either 240v or gas really easy, but it would seem the gas cost over 15 years would outweigh the electric.

 Does anyone here have gas? What Ive generally decided so far is...

 I want about an 8 x 8 with 1 lounger
 A variety of jets including swirly ones
                        (is swirly correct)
 Massively insulated
 2 or 3 pumps
 Multiple ways to direct the flow
 A remote monitor (not a deal breaker)
 No maintenance siding
 Local warranty with reputable dealer
 No buyer remorse
 Led or fiber changing lights
 Stereo nice, but not paying a grand for it
 Easy to use controls

 Im just getting started in my research and will probably be reading this forum for awhile.
 

[Brewman]

I do believe there are spa's that heat with natural gas, but you're going to have to look around a bit to find them.  

Most spas discussed here heat via electricity.  Unless I'm mistaken, a spa with a ng heating system would have to have some type of external heater to pump water to the spa, as opposed to the built in heater in the electric spas.  I've also heard that the heat time can be considerably longer witht the ng method.

You'd still need to run electricity to the spa to power the pumps, lites, etc...Plus you'd need to have a ng line run, and then there's the cost of the ng heater, which I'd think would be considerably more expensive than the electric heaters.  

Who knows if you'd ever break even, let alone save anything.  

Brewman

[SerjicalStrike]

The Sundance Cameo is about the size you are looking for and can be converted to ng by installing a heat exchanger.  I believe most portable spas will void their warranty if you install a heat exchanger.  Depending on how long the run is, you can use the circulation pump in the spa to move the water through the heat exchanger.

[Drewski]

Hey Andy-VA:

Holy smokes, another Virginia Beach resident?  How the heck are ya?

I live off South Independence near the center of the City.  Welcome to this forum.

Brewman, who, if you read his posts, offers some excellent advice, is (as always) right on the mark.  Not only would you still need to run electric, but gas as well.  Given the gas vs. electric cost in this area (for a hot tub) it's a wash.  Stick with electric.

I've wet tested tubs at most of the dealers in the area and can give you some pointers if you like.  I also have an 8x8 Artesian Piper Glen, with most of the features you're looking for if you'd like to check it out for comparison .  Artesian's closest dealer is in Nags Head.

If I can help, just let me know...

Drewski (aka Andy)

[Chas]

It has been mentioned already that you need to run an electric pump to move the water through a gas heater - which is the part of the equation that most people overlook when trying to guess which would cost less to operate - but it might not have been made clear that the pump has to be of substantial size and power. You can't use a tiny circ pump as many of the electric tubs do.

Even if you go for a tiny gas heater, the pump has to be a big 'un, and the combined cost of the two sources of power may very well cost the same, or in some rare instances, MORE to heat with gas. If your system runs a timeclock for filtration, and that system moves water through the heater, you will be cooling your tub and the heater will have to kick in to make that up. It may only take a few minutes of heat to balance things out, but in the winter that time could go up quite a bit - esp in cooler or colder climates.

If you go for a small heater, such as a 40 or 50,000 BTU - vs the larger 175 - 300,000 BTU units - you may be able to  use a 1/2 or 3/4 horsepower pump, but then you will have to run that smaller pump longer, and wait longer to use your tub if it gets cold. Most systems using small gas heaters employ a timer of some sort to run the tub twice daily so you can either keep it at temp or keep it warm so it will not be as long of a wait to get it up to usable temp.

The exception would be a tub that is used infrequently.  If you want to let the tub idle all week and use it only on the weekend, or one weekend a month - gas is a good consideration. You can raise the temp much more quickly if you have a large gas heater on hand to do the job. But the price of that large gas heater can be close the half the price of a complete self-contained tub, and sitting all week and only running on the weekends is the best way to assure that it doesn't last as long....

I have added gas heat to one or two spas - this after selling electric spas for 19 years.

Another related item that doesn't usually come up until you have owned both types of tub: since a gas heater can't run without the water moving through it, the normal drill is to kick on whatever pump moves the water throught the heater, and leave it running during use. That means that somewhere in your tub there will be a jet, a group of jets, or a return fitting that is going to be putting out water which is alternately too hot and then too cold to sit in front of comfortably. This is much more noticable in cold climates where the whole system quickly gets real cold after the gas heater shuts down, but it is still there to a lesser extent even in warmer climes.

The problem is that the heater ends up sitting a distance from the tub - so not only does the plumbing going to and from the heater lend to the effective cooling of the water, but the appliance itself makes a very good cooler when its not heating.

One last thing: the cost of operation of any spa is directly related to the insulation qulaity of the cover and the insulation of the tub. Most brand names run about the same, even though some use different designs for the tub insulation. Just be sure whatever you buy is well insulated.

[Andy-VA]

looks like NG is out. Thx for the offer Drewski, I need all the help I can get.