Brand research not going well

[MKEhottub]

Shocked at how many brands and models of hot tubs are out there along with all the inconsistent information

I’ve made the decision to focus my attention on the dealer

Can you guys recommend 3-4 brands along with a possible model that I can check to see who the local dealers are in my area?  Sundance seemed like a good one but Immediately eliminated due to the dealer reviews.

My most important areas of focus are extremely high reliability. extremely low maintenance and power usage.

I don’t plan on spending anything less than 15,000 for the hot tub itself

[cranbiz]

What do you have for dealers in your area?

Hot Springs, Marquis, Artesian, Bullfrog and Jacuzzi are the ones I would check out.

As for particular models, That's a hard one simply because you have not provided any info as to how many people, features you would like, etc.

Let us know what dealers you would like to buy from that are in your area and what are your wants and needs, then we can help better.

[Ripper238]

Shocked at how many brands and models of hot tubs are out there along with all the inconsistent information

I’ve made the decision to focus my attention on the dealer

Can you guys recommend 3-4 brands along with a possible model that I can check to see who the local dealers are in my area?  Sundance seemed like a good one but Immediately eliminated due to the dealer reviews.

My most important areas of focus are extremely high reliability. extremely low maintenance and power usage.

I don’t plan on spending anything less than 15,000 for the hot tub itself

And a lot of the brands are owned by single manufacturers like Jacuzzi/Sundance, so that makes it even more inconsistent.

Where is your area? That would be the most helpful information finding a good dealer in your area.

I personally would recommend Wellis if you are looking for a good brand/dealer. They are new to the US, but are the largest manufacturer in Europe and they want to make a big quality and customer service push in the US. Masterspas is another good option, but I am not so sure about dealers.

[Tman122]

Shocked at how many brands and models of hot tubs are out there along with all the inconsistent information

I’ve made the decision to focus my attention on the dealer

Can you guys recommend 3-4 brands along with a possible model that I can check to see who the local dealers are in my area?  Sundance seemed like a good one but Immediately eliminated due to the dealer reviews.

My most important areas of focus are extremely high reliability. extremely low maintenance and power usage.

I don’t plan on spending anything less than 15,000 for the hot tub itself

And a lot of the brands are owned by single manufacturers like Jacuzzi/Sundance, so that makes it even more inconsistent.

Where is your area? That would be the most helpful information finding a good dealer in your area.

I personally would recommend Wellis if you are looking for a good brand/dealer. They are new to the US, but are the largest manufacturer in Europe and they want to make a big quality and customer service push in the US. Masterspas is another good option, but I am not so sure about dealers.

Masterspa= low reliability and high energy use but lots of itchy jet power.
Wellis=who knows, I haven't look inside one but I have a feeling.

[cranbiz]

Master Spa is not high on my list. Dealers are the big question mark with them. The traveling road shows are usually Master Spa and one larger dealer that does high pressure sales and absolutely zero support. They dump support on the locals and the quality of Master is not all that great.

[Ripper238]

Masterspa= low reliability and high energy use but lots of itchy jet power.
Wellis=who knows, I haven't look inside one but I have a feeling.

We had a dealer near me that was excellent so i guess the Masterspas appeared better than what they were.

Wellis is certainly a good brand, but I guess a lot depends on the dealer with any hot tub.

That said still don't know where OP is to recommend a dealer.

[MKEhottub]

All thanks for the feedback thus far.

I’m in the Milwaukee area.

So far I’m looking at
Master Spas Twilight 8.2 - $13.5K
Artesian Island Series Grand Bahama - $14.4K
Marquis Crown Epic - ?

Still need to look at Bullfrog

I like the neck jets on the first two but with the lower seat on Marquis may be able to get the jet to hit back of neck.

Twilight has slightly better warranty

Marquis is apparently hard to get right now. 
Each dealer’s pitch is balboa electronics, two pumps and them pick your layout and number of jets.

No one can apparently differentiate from competitive brands so it’s making it more difficult to chose.

5-6 person with lounger

[cranbiz]

I have an Artesian Island Nevis, which is a 5-6 person tub. It was delivered a year ago May. So far, the only issue I have had with it was one segment of the tri color LED went out in one of the 6 lights in the waterfall. My dealer is taking care of it with no arguments or excuses. That certainly is not affecting the tub's performance. My close friend has an Island Grand Cayman (the Grand Bahama without the lounge), delivered in November. It also runs like a champ. The neck jet seat is deeper than the neck jet seat in my Nevis, which works for both of us as I'm 5'7" and he is 6'3"

The Grand Bahama has 3 pumps, a 24/7 circulation pump (4th pump) and full foam insulation. It really is a nice tub. I don't think you can go wrong with it.

We bought out tubs at the same time at the same dealer. If I had the space, I would have got either the Grand Cayman or Grand Bahama.

I will say, the Marquis Crown Epic is a very nice tub. I looked at Marquis (my dealer sold them too) but they didn't have one that I could get into the space my tub was going into. I easily could have come home with one. They were a lot more money than the Artesian's we looked at but if it's got Microsilk, it very well could be worth it.

What is the reputation of the Artesian and the Marquis dealer? Things being equal (if not going Microsilk) buy from the best rated dealer. You won't go wrong with either of these 2 brands.

Personally, I won't buy a Master and in my case, Bullfrog didn't make a 79" wide tub. I do believe the Bullfrog shell is a bit lighter (ABS vs Acrylic)  but the changeable jet packs is a really neat feature.

[MKEhottub]

Thanks for the feedback on the artesian

The same dealer has artesian and Marques.  They are pushing for the artesian just because they’re easier to get right now

I contacted the Wellis dealer.  They are the first ones that called out a differentiator. 
They said they have an insulated perimeter so that they can service every component on the inside versus everybody’s blowing in the foam and you can’t get certain components if there are leaks.  I asked how the efficiency and thermal barrier compares to the blown in insulation he said it’s about comparable.  Service is the key aspect.

The Wellis is is the best price for the feature set you get.  It’s $14.9K with Wi-Fi and built in stereo.  I asked about the neck jets and he said it just depends on your height and how you fit in the spa very quickly started talking about the Hip jets.

Wellis has Geko vs Balboa.  He said they are comparable as well.

[cranbiz]

You don't want the built in wifi and stereo. They almost always fail and are overly expensive to replace if out of warranty. Speakers fail and leak. You are far better off with an external BT speaker and a streaming device.

Gecko Vs Balboa, well IMHO, Balboa is better than Gecko. It's generally accepted that Balboa is #1, Gecko is #2 and everyone else lags far behind. Balboa builds and designs their stuff, Gecko just buys stuff and assembles it. I will say that Gecko support is usually more end user friendly. One issue with Gecko is there are many documented cases where a power glitch will brick a unit and IF you can get the software, you might be able to re-flash it, but if you can't re-flash it, it's a new Spa Pack time. I don't recall seeing any Balboa unit that bricked due to a software glitch. The 2 manufacturers are comparable because they both sell Spa controls.

If you are not in a cold area, then a perimeter insulation system might be an asset. You are in Milwaukee, you want full foam insulation. Better R value, lower cost to operate and the foam helps keep parts from vibration, which helps minimize leaks due to vibrations. The foam used these days is easier to dig out than the old style hard shell foam.

The salesman is just that, a salesman. His statements are going to minimize the faults of his product. As you noted, he glossed over the neck jets to push something else. When I was looking, I stopped by an Aqua Living store to see what they had as it seemed like a lot of bang for the buck. I got pretty much the sale sales pitch on the Dr. Wellness tubs as you got on the Wellis. Gecko controls were equal to Balboa, perimeter insulation is better than full foam, we have lots of jets. In reality, it's a LPI tub that is poorly made and a service nightmare.

I'm not saying not to buy the Wellis, I'm saying take what he says with a grain of salt. Wellis does not have a track record here in the states, Marquis, Artesian and Bullfrog do.

What I hope to do is help you in researching a quality tub (something I did 18 months ago) and avoid the pitfalls and marketing BS. A hot tub is a $15K, long term investment. I am simply a hot tub consumer, I have no dog in this hunt.

[MKEhottub]

Thanks for the feedback!

I’m now down to the Artesian Island Series Grand Bahama.

Still need to look into Bullfrog but when configuring it appears none the therapy charts have jet packs for your neck/upper shoulders.  Is that correct?

[cranbiz]

https://www.bullfrogspas.com/jetpak-selection/
Go here and select neck massage in the pack type.

From what I see, there are 3 packs for neck, shoulder and back massage. How good they work, I can't help you with that. I would be concerned about the upper jet positioning. Seat depth will affect the positioning and because of that, you may not get the full benefit in every seat. They all appear to have small jets though. Small jets feel good but won't provide deep tissue massage.

Ideally, you should see if you can schedule a wet test and hopefully with one of those jet packs. If wet testing can't be arranged, then at least sit in one. See what seats will work with the neck pack for jet positioning.

[MKEhottub]

Thanks for that info.  For some reason their configurator didn't have those available on the mobile version.

Bullfrog A8L = $16.5 which includes 2 pumps no circ pump, ozone, frog@ease and then includes the free stereo.  Has a nicer cover than the typical vinyl then a lifetime on composite structure.  It was recommended to had circ pump.

Sundance Cameo = $18K.  This one is now in the mix as it has battery pack with cellular connectivity vs wifi, jets that are potentially more powerful, bigger heater, recirc pump, UV bulb and air blower control.  Seems to offer more value than the Bullfrog even though the jetpacks are tempting.  I don't like the treated wood with the 10 year warranty.

Artesian Grand Bahama = $14.3K which include ozone, frog@ease, 3 pumps and circ pumps.  Has 3 year part & labor vs 5 years for the others.

Wish I could merge the value prop of these hot tubs!  Still a tough choice at this point.

Any thoughts on the Sundance?  They said they have a few Cameo in stock so may be able to get a lower price yet.

[cranbiz]

You can get an extended warranty on the Grand Bahama to 5 years if you wish.

Sundance is a good tub, fits right in with the others. However UV is unnecessary and expensive to obtain and maintain. What size is the heater? Just about all of these tubs have a 6kW heater.

IMHO, you want a circ pump instead of running one of the main pumps in low speed. So add in the circ pump if you go with the Bullfrog.

frog@ease. Named appropriately, it is easy but easy comes at a price. It is more expensive to run than a dichlor/chlorine regiment. It is also more forgiving in that you don't have to monitor it daily. The Bullfrog @ease system is proprietary, uses triangle shaped cartridges where all the others use the cylindrical cartridges. The cost is about the same, availability could be an issue.

[MKEhottub]

I had Bullfrog quote the recirc - added $450

Now that you brought up frog @ ease I discussed with the Bullfrog dealer and they said you need to replace the chlorine cartridge every 3 weekse and 3-4 months for mineral.

Most reviews are claiming 2 weeks with the Bullfrog frog ease chlorine cartridges.  In additon they complain about the excessive plastic waste, can bulk buy mineral in the 3 pack and can only buy from dealer or Bullfrog site. 

Artesian uses the Frog @ Ease as well.  Seems to use a different cartridge that really lasts 3 weeks and seems to be readily available if I have the right product below.
https://www.amazon.com/Caldera-Tahitian-SmartChlor-Cartridge-3-Pack/dp/B07BLL2RFL/ref=sr_1_3?gclid=Cj0KCQjw08aYBhDlARIsAA_gb0cMp5MYuZvIiBAxiMG4tJnwvB0pijjwlXARhqaXTqnZz0mOQb_99y8aAtfxEALw_wcB&hvadid=418686779655&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9018750&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=15836274768082412194&hvtargid=kwd-624579994928&hydadcr=23688_11324034&keywords=frog+ease+smartchlor+cartridges&qid=1662168611&sr=8-3


If I eliminate the Frog @ ease on Artesian or Bullfrog what is the best alternative to use in concert with the standard filters and ozone?

When I talked more to the Artesian dealer they slammed Bullfrog

Stated the following:

• • Composite structure isn't as strong as the pressure treated wood on the Artesian. 
    Water behind the jet packs goes stagnant
    New jet packs cost $800 vs swapping all the individual jets on Artesian costs $100
    Said their effeciency claims are BS unless they put in writing they'll cover the difference in the savings you don't get in reality
    LED ligts in the unit are weak and barely light it up

Bullfrog dealer said they are unfamilar with Artesian and can't comment on their product.
They did state Bullfrog changed the jetpack design to add to jets on the back inside to circulate the water but said you should sprinkle product in this area or inspect occasionally if you're not swapping the jets regularly.