Sundance vs Caldera

[randomdude]

hey everyone, new here.  live in chicago and getting ready to drop some cash on a tub.  never owned one before.  my wife and i love them when we are on vacation so its nice to be finally getting one.

well, we have wet tested the caldera niagra and a hotsprings pulse.  Going to wettest a sundance 880 optima on friday.  my question to everyone here is if there is a huge difference between the caldera utopia series vs calderas paradise series.  and the same for sundances 880 optima vs 780 chelsee.  theres about a 2-3k price difference from those top end series to the middle grade series.  just wondering if you guys think its really worth the money to get the higher end series from either manufacturer. 

of course the only ones they had filled up to wet test were the higher end ones.  obviously theres more jets in the top of the line series.  but i was told the insulation from sundance on the 880 vs 780 was a significant difference.

i know its ultimately what our preference is but its hard to make that choice when you cant wet test all of them and they only have the higher end ones filled up lol.

we are in chicago so efficiency is important.  the niagra had two seats with neck gets which we really didnt think was that big of a deal, it was ok but not worth the 2,500 extra.  the jets seemed the same in the salina paradise series but just fewer.  again, would be nice to get in these middle grade series and actually see what the difference is.

a rep at the facility selling sundance said the jets in the 780 are not anywhere near as powerful or nice as the 880.  he is a salesman though lol.

thanks in advance guys.

[CanadianSpaTech]

Just make sure to vette the dealer as much as you do brand and price. A spa is no good if you can't get timely service when it's 20 below. What's the warranty, Is it pro rated over the life of the warranty? Do they handle service in house or through a 3rd party? Do they charge a "trip" fee. Most factories only cover time on site and parts but not drive time for the tech. Can range from $0 up to and over $200. Do they include backyard delivery, step, cover lifter and chemical kit. All costs money and needed. Good Luck

[randomdude]

thanks for the reply.  so the caldera dealer closest to met offers everything with the tub, start up chemical kit, cover, steps, sub panel with breakers, delivery.  they do have a trip charge of $50, another dealer that sold some other brands had a $85 trip charge.  As far as pro rated warranty, i haven't asked about that.  is it common for dealers to charge trip fees and to pro rate the warranty?  i assumed the warrant was coming from the manufacturer and not the dealer.

so we actually narrowed our choice down to hot springs pulse and sundance 780 chelsee.  just came back from sitting in the 780 chelsee and we loved it.  not sure if we wanna wet test the 880 optima considering its 4k more.

i will say the the dealers for both are saying a very long wait time for custom orders.  i think they are bullshitting, they said 2-3 years at the hot springs dealer we went to, thats if we want anything outside of what they already had ordered.  and the sundance dealer said a year for anything thats not ordered. 

i think they just want to sell whats ordered but how the hell do you pay all that money and not get the one you want. 

[BullFrogSpasMN]

thanks for the reply.  so the caldera dealer closest to met offers everything with the tub, start up chemical kit, cover, steps, sub panel with breakers, delivery.  they do have a trip charge of $50, another dealer that sold some other brands had a $85 trip charge.  As far as pro rated warranty, i haven't asked about that.  is it common for dealers to charge trip fees and to pro rate the warranty?  i assumed the warrant was coming from the manufacturer and not the dealer.

so we actually narrowed our choice down to hot springs pulse and sundance 780 chelsee.  just came back from sitting in the 780 chelsee and we loved it.  not sure if we wanna wet test the 880 optima considering its 4k more.

i will say the the dealers for both are saying a very long wait time for custom orders.  i think they are bullshitting, they said 2-3 years at the hot springs dealer we went to, thats if we want anything outside of what they already had ordered.  and the sundance dealer said a year for anything thats not ordered. 

i think they just want to sell whats ordered but how the hell do you pay all that money and not get the one you want.

warranties are set by the manufacturer, so anything that is pro-rated is coming from them and not the dealer...trip fees have been pretty much standard in this industry for well over a decade now, they cover costs for the business....I can't send out a well qualified technician who I'm paying $26 an hour + insurance + pay $4 for gas and drive 60 miles each way and stay in business without covering some of those costs, it's simply not feasible especially in big metropolitan markets where customers are spread out over a 40,50,60 mile radius.

the hot springs sales rep is flat out lying, it's not 2-3 years to get a spa from them, they are simply managing their cash flow by attempting to sell you spas that are already on order, can't really blame them if they are a lower volume dealer, big volume guys don't worry about things like that.  If you love the Chelsea maybe they have a color on order that will work for you? Good Luck!

[castletonia]

I have it on good authority that Sundance / Jacuzzi are a one year lead time on new orders.  As a Hot Spring / Caldera, I can assure you it is not a 2-3 year lead time.  However, the lead time will vary based on the dealer.  Each dealer has a annual allocation.  With that allocation, the order dates for the year are already determined so depending on how many hot tubs your dealer has pre-sold and what their allocation is, I would expect a lead time anywhere between 3-8 months right now.  I doubt any decently sized dealer has already sold through their 2022 allocation.

With regards to warranties, I don't know of any reputable, high end manufacturer that has a pro-rated warranty.  Most warranties also state that the dealer may charge a mileage fee to cover the cost of getting from their store to the customer's house.  As BullFrogSpasMN stated, trip fees are pretty normal in this industry and have been for years.  I will go as far to say that the dealer will typically lose money on any warranty service call even if they charge a trip fee.  Warranty does come from the manufacturer and the dealer is only the facilitator of the warranty.

Even though I have a bias here, I would suggest this: You are looking at two premium manufacturers that are of similar quality and similar warranty.  I will also assume that price is similar. Unless one of the hot tubs presents itself as significantly better for you, I would choose based on the dealer you trust more. 

[CanadianSpaTech]

warranties are set by the manufacturer, so anything that is pro-rated is coming from them and not the dealer...trip fees have been pretty much standard in this industry for well over a decade now, they cover costs for the business....I can't send out a well qualified technician who I'm paying $26 an hour + insurance + pay $4 for gas and drive 60 miles each way and stay in business without covering some of those costs, it's simply not feasible especially in big metropolitan markets where customers are spread out over a 40,50,60 mile radius.
[/quote]

And if you ever have to make a second or third trip out to complete the repair then you are really loosing money. Why I don't do warranty work anymore.

[bud16415]

We have a Caldera Geneva for the last 7 or so years and only had a couple issues with it. I believe it is the upper tier of their product line and that was a question you asked about. IMO in the long term some of the features and build quality of that step up are worth it.

If I remember correctly the upper models have a circulation pump and for me that’s a pretty big deal. The other models run the main pumps to do cleaning and with a circulation pump it cleans slowly but all the time.

The upper models sometime will let you run all the pumps at the same time or have dual speeds. Some don’t have a base pan ABS and the upper level does.

The only major problem we had was a pump leak on the motor side and I called my service dealer and they gave me some wild number or 800 bucks to replace motor and pump. I bought a wet end replacement pump for 70 bucks and DIY in about 2 hours. So if you are handy you can do some of the work yourself.

Caldera had two things I liked. One was their insulation was packed in and had a very high rating and can be removed and replaced if something in the walls needs repaired. The second thing is some of their upper models use a double GFCI breaker that they provide and it has the tub and the heater on different GFCI breakers. If your heater fails in the winter the tub will still run in survival mode slowly moving the hot water that’s in the tub to keep the pump side from freezing up. It also alarms you to the problem. That takes the time to service the tub from maybe a day to a week depending on the weather.

I would say if you are planning on having the tub for 20 years the extra cost stepping up is worth it.