Newbie confused about chemicals (yes, I searched first!)

[xMeta4x]

Hi All,

I have a new Jacuzzi, and it seems that the advice given to me by the installer was bogus.

He threw in 3 capfuls of the Jacuzzi Bromine powder from the starter kit, put 3 bromine tabs in the feeder, and told me to add a cap of powder after every use, and 3 tabs every week. He also advised that I should never have to use the shock....

I balanced the TA, pH, and bromine levels. All seemed well, but the water got a little cloudy, so I put in the sachet of (non-chlorine) shock.

The next day my Bromine levels were off the charts!

So I set about reading up, and I think my tub had may too much bromine in it, and the shock reactivated it all. Does that sound right?

Anyway, I freaked and put in some stuff I had for the pond that removes chlorine (and hopefully bromine), and the next day the bromine levels were normal, but TA was bottoming out.

I added some TA plus, which got that back up, but the pH went a little high, so I put in some pH minus to get it back down.

Right, sorry about all that, but that's the background!

I'm thinking that I should just stick with the Bromine tabs, and skip the granules. Do the Jacuzzi brand ones also have Chlorine in them to oxidise?

Should I still shock weekly as I've read, and what should I do about the bromine levels after shocking?

The tub is used daily by 2 people.

Cheers,
Andy

[bud16415]

Andy
Seems the forum has slowed down over the last months I have been away.
If you are still around I will try and give you my two cents.

I had similar problems with bromine when I got my tub and wasted a year trying to figure it out and never did.

Drain your tub and flush out all the bromine as best you can. I direct a fill hose into each jet after the tub is empty and then drain that out and then use my shop vac to suck it all out and then reverse the hoses to blow and blow air in the jets to get as much water out as I can.

Then my suggestion is to switch from bromine to chlorine using granular dichlor and also household bleach as the sanitizer. You can also use pool bleach, as it is the same as household bleach just a little stronger. The reason you use dichlor is because it has stabilizer in it and some is good too much is bad and it builds in hot tub water as sunlight is what removes it and we keep our tubs covered. I have a 350 gallon tub and with two people using it daily it takes roughly one tablespoon of dichlor a day put in after we soak and let the tub run for about 10 minutes before closing it. on mine I just hit the clean cycle. 1/3 cup of bleach is about equal to one tablespoon of dichlor. With fresh water with PH adjusted start off using dichlor and in a week or so you will see the stabilizer or CYA going up. When it hits 50PPM switch to bleach and when it drops to 30 switch back to granular dichlor. If you don’t use the tub one day go lighter on the chlorine you are using and if you have friends over or use it longer use a little more.

About every other week or as needed use the non-chlorine shock about a cap full after you get out. If the water gets cloudy use the shock. Keep your eye on the PH and tweak as needed.

The reason I like this method is you are using it everyday anyway and dealing with it as you use it only takes a minute. The problem is if you are going away for some time. What I do is if I’m going to be gone for a few days is to Hit it hard right before I leave and even turn the temp down some. The two without any usage will keep it nice easily for a week. You can also pre-measure some and ask a neighbor to toss it in on a given day.

Few other pointers for a new owner.

Take a shower before getting in the tub.
Don’t wear swimwear in the tub, if you must get some just for the tub and don’t wash it with soap just rinse it after use. Lotions and makeup and such are hard on the sanitizer levels and filters. After a soak is the time for using oils and lotions and such as the tub cooks your skin a little and will leave it dry. Clean your filters every other week and the hotter the water you clean them with the better they will get clean. If you have a laundry sink put a hose on it and get a jet nozzle. I plumbed both hot and cold to our deck and use the hot out there for cleaning filters and topping off the water level and for removing ice from the deck and the tub cover.

Hope this helps a little.     

[bud16415]

Hi All,

I have a new Jacuzzi, and it seems that the advice given to me by the installer was bogus.

He threw in 3 capfuls of the Jacuzzi Bromine powder from the starter kit, put 3 bromine tabs in the feeder, and told me to add a cap of powder after every use, and 3 tabs every week. He also advised that I should never have to use the shock....

I balanced the TA, pH, and bromine levels. All seemed well, but the water got a little cloudy, so I put in the sachet of (non-chlorine) shock.

The next day my Bromine levels were off the charts!

So I set about reading up, and I think my tub had may too much bromine in it, and the shock reactivated it all. Does that sound right?

Anyway, I freaked and put in some stuff I had for the pond that removes chlorine (and hopefully bromine), and the next day the bromine levels were normal, but TA was bottoming out.

I added some TA plus, which got that back up, but the pH went a little high, so I put in some pH minus to get it back down.

Right, sorry about all that, but that's the background!

I'm thinking that I should just stick with the Bromine tabs, and skip the granules. Do the Jacuzzi brand ones also have Chlorine in them to oxidise?

Should I still shock weekly as I've read, and what should I do about the bromine levels after shocking?

The tub is used daily by 2 people.

Cheers,
Andy

Updated

[Red MC]

I didn't reply because I have no personal experience with bromine.  But like Bud, I prefer to use dichlor granules for sanitizer along with non-chlorine shock (MPS) as needed.

At first, I tried to avoid chlorine by using a combination of Nature2 mineral cartridge + CD ozone + weekly shocking with MPS.  That worked OK when it was just my wife and I using the tub a couple times a week.  But we were going through a lot of MPS and replacing $60 cartridges every 6 months, so it was not cheap.  Also, when we had a party and the hot tub was full of people for a few hours, the MPS wasn't enough and we'd have to shock with dichlor.

Over time, we got in the habit of adding dichlor after each use, and occasionally shocking with MPS.  We kept the ozone going but stopped replacing the mineral cartridges.  The amount of dichlor to add after use depends on water volume and bather load.  For us, 2 people x 1 hour gets 1 tsp, a full tub (6 people) for a couple hours gets 1 Tbsp.  If we haven't used the tub in a week, I throw in 1 Tbsp.  I used to test free chlorine to make sure I was adding enough, but I don't think it's really necessary.  If the water starts to develop a green tint or odor, you didn't use enough.  And if there's still a noticeable chlorine odor when you use the tub again, you probably used too much.  If the water is getting a little cloudy, we shock it with 2-3 Tbsp of MPS, which is every couple weeks or once a month depending on how much we use it.

Good luck.

[bud16415]

I didn't reply because I have no personal experience with bromine.  But like Bud, I prefer to use dichlor granules for sanitizer along with non-chlorine shock (MPS) as needed.

At first, I tried to avoid chlorine by using a combination of Nature2 mineral cartridge + CD ozone + weekly shocking with MPS.  That worked OK when it was just my wife and I using the tub a couple times a week.  But we were going through a lot of MPS and replacing $60 cartridges every 6 months, so it was not cheap.  Also, when we had a party and the hot tub was full of people for a few hours, the MPS wasn't enough and we'd have to shock with dichlor.

Over time, we got in the habit of adding dichlor after each use, and occasionally shocking with MPS.  We kept the ozone going but stopped replacing the mineral cartridges.  The amount of dichlor to add after use depends on water volume and bather load.  For us, 2 people x 1 hour gets 1 tsp, a full tub (6 people) for a couple hours gets 1 Tbsp.  If we haven't used the tub in a week, I throw in 1 Tbsp.  I used to test free chlorine to make sure I was adding enough, but I don't think it's really necessary.  If the water starts to develop a green tint or odor, you didn't use enough.  And if there's still a noticeable chlorine odor when you use the tub again, you probably used too much.  If the water is getting a little cloudy, we shock it with 2-3 Tbsp of MPS, which is every couple weeks or once a month depending on how much we use it.

Good luck.

Bromine IMO only had one advantage and that is it breaks down slowly in hot water and works in a canister or puck form in a floater. The chlorine pucks work in swimming pools as the water is cooler and the volume of water greater so if a puck takes a few days to break down that’s good. They now have chlorine that breaks down slow sold by the name @ease but it is pricey and has some of the qualities of bromine. I’m told bromine has the ability to convert chlorine to bromine so when you add dichlor to a bromine tub it ends up adding to the bromine. The reason I suggested getting it flushed really good when switching. A chlorine tub can be switched to bromine at any time without draining, I’m told.

Like you I don’t test the water that often with time you get a feel for what’s going on. I use a test strip about once a week and I get the 6 in 1 strips and mainly look at PH chlorine and CYA or stabilizer. You might want to start substituting bleach for dichlor when CYA hits 50PPM when I started that my water still looks great after 6 months of light usage once a day for 2 people say. Before that the CYA would start getting real high after say 3 months and the water would get wonky and seem to need tweaking every day or so kind of like it did with bromine. Keeping that stabilizer right around 50 lets the chlorine work not to fast and not to slow. I love getting in 24 hours after treatment and the level is almost zero. then you get out and add it and it comes up to 3 and works on the water over night. I don’t have an issue getting in if it is 5 or a little higher but enjoy it better lower. When you see a public pool or tub I bet they are 15 or higher.

My ozone likely hasn’t made more than bubbles for the last 5 years and I see no need for it. I do love having a tub with a circulator pump though and recommend people have that feature if they can.

My biggest expense by far is electric cost, maybe a dollar a day well worth it. and chemicals are just penny’s a day.

The first month of owning a tub I wanted to send it back. the first year was rough and now I hardly think about it and just enjoy it. The learning curve is shorter when there is advice on forums like this. 

[bud16415]

One more tip for newcomers to hot tubs that live in the cold north.

Mid winter is the worst time to drain and clean a tub. If you time it right get it done in the fall. If not I do a partial drain and fill mid winter if the water seems to be getting old. You don’t even need to shut the tub off to do this. I drain it down about a third and refill it and it is like turning the clock back a month or two on the water. You can’t do this if the water goes real bad as it sometime will if you don’t take care of it or push it too long.

I actually think if you were set up right to do a little drain and fill every week the water could last forever. I had a leaky pump last winter and didn’t want to fix it till spring so I added a inch of water every few days and it really stayed nice. Spring came and I did my first wet end pump swap. The pump cost me 80 bucks. I called the local guy and he said they only change pump and motor as they have bad luck with wet ends. He quoted me 800 bucks. I said thanks but no thanks.   

[Red MC]

Good point about CYA and bleach.  I generally refill twice a year and have never seen CYA increase much over that time.  It does go up if I shock with a lot of dichlor, but then it seems to dissipate over time.  These days, I rarely need to shock with chlorine, but it's a good idea to use bleach for that.

I did have a bad experience with adding CYA once.  After this one fill, I was having difficulty maintaining the water, particularly keeping pH stable.  I was advised that I should have CYA about 30 ppm, whereas mine was <10 ppm, so they sold me some granulated CYA and I added it.  It just made things worse and I had to refill.  It turns out the root of the problem was low calcium hardness.  It was at 20 ppm!  All previous fills were 60-100 ppm.  Since then, I've always had calcium hardness increaser on hand when filling and I need it about half the time.

[bud16415]

Good point about CYA and bleach.  I generally refill twice a year and have never seen CYA increase much over that time.  It does go up if I shock with a lot of dichlor, but then it seems to dissipate over time.  These days, I rarely need to shock with chlorine, but it's a good idea to use bleach for that.

I did have a bad experience with adding CYA once.  After this one fill, I was having difficulty maintaining the water, particularly keeping pH stable.  I was advised that I should have CYA about 30 ppm, whereas mine was <10 ppm, so they sold me some granulated CYA and I added it.  It just made things worse and I had to refill.  It turns out the root of the problem was low calcium hardness.  It was at 20 ppm!  All previous fills were 60-100 ppm.  Since then, I've always had calcium hardness increaser on hand when filling and I need it about half the time.

That’s some great points and seldom gets talked about, that being the water we fill our tubs with (starting point) is not always the same. We are lucky our little town has a good quality treatment plant and most of the time our water is perfect. It Is taken from a local river though and I try not to fill my tub right after a hard rain fall. I don’t know what they treat with after these events or what it is but a normal fill leaves my water super clear with a blue sparkle. After these hard rains and start up chemicals added by me the water is clear with a green sparkle. Takes a couple weeks to go away.

Yes if you don’t get a CYA increase over 6 months stick with what works and if you do a chlorine shock bleach would be the way to do it. 

[xMeta4x]

Thanks for the replies everyone, glad I checked back! Is there a setting I'm missing to get emailed when you get a reply?!

I guess the message is not to use bromine!

The problem is that I have a lot of it right now...so until that's used up, I want to stick with it, then I'll probably switch to Dichlor as suggested.

I didn't add any more bromine (tablets or granules). I shocked it again, and the bromine levels shot up again, but not as high.

Today my bromine levels were zero, so I put 2 tablets in the feeder, and will check it again tomorrow. I plan to shock at the weekend, and see what happens to the levels then.

Otherwise, the water is clear, no problems there!

[bud16415]

Thanks for the replies everyone, glad I checked back! Is there a setting I'm missing to get emailed when you get a reply?!

I guess the message is not to use bromine!

The problem is that I have a lot of it right now...so until that's used up, I want to stick with it, then I'll probably switch to Dichlor as suggested.

I didn't add any more bromine (tablets or granules). I shocked it again, and the bromine levels shot up again, but not as high.

Today my bromine levels were zero, so I put 2 tablets in the feeder, and will check it again tomorrow. I plan to shock at the weekend, and see what happens to the levels then.

Otherwise, the water is clear, no problems there!

When I switched over I took my unused unopened Stuff back and traded it for what I wanted.

Don’t get me wrong there are many people that do just fine with bromine and I don’t have a clue how they do it

[Sammi]

My father has an old HS Vanguard (2004) in Arizona. He puts a bottle of Spa Marvel in when he refills the spa (twice/year) and uses a floater with 1 bromine tab that he replaces about weekly when it fizzles out. He doesn't seem to have any issues with water balancing.

Meanwhile I have a brand new HS Envoy with the salt system and am adding some sort of chemical almost daily whether it be ph down, alkalinity increaser, chlorine granules, non-cholorine shock.

The only difference is he keeps his spa so damn hot you can't sit in it for more than 10-15 minutes whereas I keep mine in a more comfortable range and enjoy it for 30-45 minutes nightly.

I was sold on the salt system but wonder if its all it is cracked up to be after seeing how hands off his spa operates.