Marquis Post-delivery Issues

[stuart]

Jenn,
You have to mention the dealership by name and give them some free advertising for this.

[jenn]

Stuart -

As soon as my replacement tub is delivered I will mention the name of the dealer!!!

[ebirrane]

It's undoubtedly true that top manufacturers sell thousands of tubs.  But how many of those people come to this forum?  I would argue that only a small portion actually participate (look at the user stats).  However, it seems that more than just a few of these individuals DO have problems.  Kinda makes you wonder about how many problems the people who are NOT participating have?  Hmmm, the term "representative sample" comes to mind....

No no no, Drewski, part of what I do is statistical sampling.  The analysis is not correct.  People come to forums, internet searches, and places when they have a problem.

When you fill in survery cards, for example, if someone does NOT fill in a survey card you assume they had a pleasant experience.  People only fill out cards if their experience was better than expected or worse than expected.

Who are on these forums?

- People generally interested in hot tubs (dealers and dorks like me)
- People looking to buy a hot tub (and who, after purchase, stick with it, thus also becoming hot tub dorks like me)
- People who have problems and want to ask advice on how to deal with a problem brand or a problem dealer.

You must factor in intent. The concept that forums are a random sample is just not correct.

-Ed

[ebirrane]

 How can a spa leak or have other problems right out of the gate?  Lots of possibilities.  People make the spas and people aren't perfect.  Loaded on a truck with a forklift, driven over rough interstates and off loaded with a forklift.  Stored and then loaded on a trailer and driven to the customers home.

Other variables for sure!  Reminds me once we delivered a rack of equipment to a customer and it didn't work.  Upon investigation we found a SHOEPRINT on the back of our backplane.  Someone either stepped on (or kicked) our backplane!

Clearly, we should have dropped that backplane manufacturer...  

-Ed

[Drewski]

Hi Ed:

The term "representative sample" was used only jokingly, clearly "case study" could only be used in this forum.

However, I'd take issue with assuming that people with complaints are more common here than the average buyer.  Jenn (Hi, Jenn, if you're still reading this!) first posted on September 6th, asking advice about different tubs.  She and her husband purchased shortly after and took delivery on the 14th.  Jenn didn't have complaints before coming to the forum, she had problems AFTER.

I've also noted a number of other posters who experienced similar issues after taking delivery on a tub, who also started in this forum FIRST and then had problems.

Again, I'll go back to my original point.  I think too many "problems" are cropping up with brand new tubs costing nearly $10,000.

Change the venue. If you went and purchased a car, took it home and found oil or coolant on the ground leaking from it the next day, would you be happy if the dealer said "don't worry, we can fix that."  "After all, people make cars and they aren't perfect."  "Besides, you drove it home over that rough Interstate, and it could have been damaged." Or, say the speedometer or electronics control package didn't work. Maybe the heater only blew cold air. I don't think too many consumers would be happy about any of these things, regardless of how many well intentioned explanations the dealer who sold them the vehicle provided.

CONSUMER demand drives the market. Sooner or later, companies that make products with “problems” start losing market share, especially if competing products are made better and price comparable.

Are there good examples of companies with “problems” commonly found in the spa industry? Well, just search “Thermospas” on this forum and you will have the answer to that. I seem to remember websites put up by Termospas buyers that were, well let’s just say, “irate.” It was also interesting to see how shortly after this, Thermospas started paying attention (at least in some cases) to consumer issues.

I’m not busting on any particular dealer or manufacturer out there, BUT, consumers need to have voice and should NOT be settling for “less than perfect.” The products we buy lose value immediately after delivery and will never be in better condition than when "new."

I’m glad Jenn got a new tub.  It was the right move on her part and on the part of a perceptive dealer.

In any case, thanks for the good discussion.  Don’t take my meaning as anger, it’s only passion.

Peace and Hot Water...

Andy    

[ebirrane]

Drewski,

 We are just going to have to disagree here.  But I propose an exercise for you:

Go to consumer reports (or a similar rating agency) and pick an appliance category (since we are engaging in "proof by analogy").  Now, look up the manufacturer failure rate on rated appliances in that category.  Then, pick the manufacturer with the best quality record.

Now, search internet forums for that applicance manufacturer and you will find many lists of people complaining about lemons in that manufacturer, even though that manufacturer, according to that ratings agency, has the least number of recalls or quality problems.

If you do not believe that people congregate to complain more than they congregate to praise then we will just have to disagree.

If you feel that the dealers, in this case Marquis, who posted and say that leaks are horridly rare are incorrect based on the couple of posts you have read here and, presumably, elsewhere, then we will have to disagree.

What I am saying to you is that you do not have the information to form opinions on tub quality.  Obviously, you feel that you do have enough information and on that we will also just disagree.

But since we only need to rely on 1 post to make assumptions on a brand, here is one from:

http://www.poolsearch.com/forum/read.php?f=8&i=12904&t=636

"I also agree that Artesian has a history of leaks. We have a dove canyon and have had numerous problems from the get go... we still have it, but i can tell you that the 8000 we paid was way too much!! I wouldn't recommend an artesian."


Searching here I found that someone feels that Artesian has a failure rate of 1.4%, someone else has been waiting 9 weeks for one from the factory when they said it should take 4 weeks, and that, in general, there is very little info about them at all because they are a small manufacturer.

-Ed