Pricing on Hot Spring, Sundance and Master Spa

[thewompmaster]

In the market for our first hot tub.  Done our research based on the plethora of good info on here (dealers matter most, solid built tubs, then additional features).  Pricing surprised me in how spread out the competition was: Master TS 8.25 around $9,500, Hot Spring Envoy around $15,250 and Sundance Cameo for $13,100.  I haven't tested some others in the area yet like Bullfrog, Caldera, etc.  I really expected Hot Spring and Sundance to compete somewhat close in price.  I also can't believe how much cheaper the TS 8.25 was than both.

All prices are pre-tax, include delivery/setup, stairs, cover, coverlift and initial watercare materials.  The Envoy included Salt system which I'm not sold on getting if I go that route.  The Cameo includes the smart features.  Master includes ABS bottom.

I can understand why Master TS 8.25 would be the lowest price of the three but this gap seems crazy.  I also have no idea how Hot Spring would be so much higher than the Sundance.  Am I crazy or are these prices able to be negotiated further? Like most, I'm not trying to take away the dealer's entire commission...I want them to get paid and be friendly during future servicing and business dealings.  I also just want a fair deal and to get things in my budget considering the uncertain economic climate currently underway.

Thanks in advance for any advice/response!

[Hottubguy]

Difference in HS price versus Sundance could be on the accessories. HS makes a bunch of different cover lifters at various prices as well as different steps at different prices. Part of the price difference is the salt system as well. Sundance dealers usually use aftermarket lifters and steps. What steps and cover lift came with each model?  Ok a Caldera dealer which uses almost same lifters and steps. I have some steps that sell for $169 and others that are $499. Same on cover lifters.

[castletonia]

Everything is negotiable.  When your dealer is willing to let you walk, you know its as good as it gets.

Dealer overhead, options, accessories, etc will swing the price.  As a Hot Spring dealer, I can tell you that the cover lift and steps you choose can swing the price by about $600.  If you choose ozone, salt, or both, that can add up to $1,000.  Other things to consider.  Does one dealer charge service call fees where the other does not?  Unfortunately there are many variables that can swing the price.  Also, if you start throwing cash at your dealer vs using a credit card or financing, the price will probably get better.

Of the 3 brands you are looking at, the Hot Spring and Sunance are their "high end" lines.  The Twilight is not the high end from Master Spas, you need to get into their Michael Phelps Legend Series to be a equal comparison.  Otherwise drop down to a Limelight from Hot Spring or 780 Series Sundance.

[thewompmaster]

Thanks for the replies Hottubguy and Castletonia.  To give you a little more information...

All of the prices I've listed are based on cash purchases or 12 months same as cash max - supposedly either of those would get me the "cash price".  The Hot Spring steps are the polymer steps (they listed it at $195) and the Covercradle (they listed it at $499).  I don't really expect the Sundance and Hot Spring to match the Master Spa price.  But I did think the two higher end brands would be closer together in price.  I will also mention that the price included the electrical subpanel for the Hot Spring, but I don't think that is needed on the other tabs I've mentioned?  I think I'd be fine skipping the salt system - any opinions on this?

Thanks for the help everyone.

[ratchett]

Thanks for the replies Hottubguy and Castletonia.  To give you a little more information...

All of the prices I've listed are based on cash purchases or 12 months same as cash max - supposedly either of those would get me the "cash price".  The Hot Spring steps are the polymer steps (they listed it at $195) and the Covercradle (they listed it at $499).  I don't really expect the Sundance and Hot Spring to match the Master Spa price.  But I did think the two higher end brands would be closer together in price.  I will also mention that the price included the electrical subpanel for the Hot Spring, but I don't think that is needed on the other tabs I've mentioned?  I think I'd be fine skipping the salt system - any opinions on this?

Thanks for the help everyone.

It's really important to know that every dealer operates on different profit margins, so even if they are both "higher end brands" doesn't really matter too much when it comes to pricing. For all you know both tubs could cost exactly the same at the dealer level.

Hell I visited two different dealers equidistant from my rural location to get a quote on a Hotspring Jetsetter.  The price was $2500 less from one dealer than the other! Both were the store's advertised price (no haggling) - same configuration, both dealers had to special order the tub (not a floor model special or anything).  The difference in pricing was due to the fact that one dealer was a "big backyard" style store selling all kinds of products for an HGTV quality makeover from one store.  The sales reps were inexperienced and worked on commission.  Meanwhile the cheaper dealer was a small family business who'd been selling and servicing Hotspring Spas exclusively for decades (they don't sell anything else besides HS spas), their sales reps were not on commission and they had their own in-house technicians for performing service work.     I knew there might be some difference in pricing between different dealers, but I saved nearly 21% simply by driving to the next town over to visit this other dealer equidistant from me.   (No haggling was necessary at either shop, this was their price for that weekend - the more expensive dealer had a "holiday weekend sale" taking only $500 off the msrp.  The more affordable dealer had no sale - it was their regular price and wouldn't change a month from then)

After waiting twenty years to buy my first tub, I went with a Hotspring Jetsetter and ultimately plan on trading-in/upgrading to the Envoy in several years once I finish rebuilding my backyard.  Naturally i'm going to be a fanboy and say "Buy the Envoy!", but have you wet-tested the tubs you are looking at?  How did they feel? The Motomassager DX jets on the Hotspring tubs is unlike any other jet I've seen in the industry - did you get to test that out?  Some people like it, other's hate it.

Have you researched the dealers online reviews to see what previous customers say?    Keep in mind this dealer will be your point of contact for all warranty service, so make sure you can trust them with servicing your spa.   

Just my $0.02 as a newbie to the industry

[swilly1000]

I have a Master TS 8.25 and I love it. 

The jetting in that line will be the same as in the highest end Michael Phelps line. 

You are going to need 40amp service to the TS 8.25 so that goes some distance in reconciling the price differences you are seeing.  Depending on where you live and how complex the wiring job will be that can easily be $1-2K for electrical.

Wet test!!!

[thewompmaster]

Thanks Ratchett and Swilly for the comments.  I have done research on the dealers, and they all get great reviews.  The Hot Spring dealer is exclusively selling Hot Spring tubs and swim spas.  I have wet tested the Envoy, Optima and TS 8.25.  I liked them all.  The foot blasters on the TS 8.25 are amazing.  The moto-massage on the Envoy was great, and my favorite part was the lounge and captain's chair/bucket...probably the best designed 5 person layout that I have seen.  The Sundance was just solid all around but not a huge fan of the foot dome.

I think the electrical costs would be the same across the three manufacturers?  None of my prices include electrical except the Hot Spring includes the panel that I think might only be necessary for their tubs.

The Hot Spring cover lifter does seem higher cost (but likely better) than what their competitors are offering.  Their stairs seem in-line with what I'd expect others to cost.  The salt system definitely adds costs so if I took that away that would remove $800-$1000 to the gap.

The Hot Spring dealer keeps mentioning that the Sundance is just not comparable and similar, but even worse, for the Master Spas tub.  Is the Hot Spring tub really that superior (i.e. built so much better)?  The dealers all charge service charges of $50-$100 after first year of warranty.  I might try to see if another Hot Spring dealer is close to me.

[Hottubguy]

Thanks Ratchett and Swilly for the comments.  I have done research on the dealers, and they all get great reviews.  The Hot Spring dealer is exclusively selling Hot Spring tubs and swim spas.  I have wet tested the Envoy, Optima and TS 8.25.  I liked them all.  The foot blasters on the TS 8.25 are amazing.  The moto-massage on the Envoy was great, and my favorite part was the lounge and captain's chair/bucket...probably the best designed 5 person layout that I have seen.  The Sundance was just solid all around but not a huge fan of the foot dome.

I think the electrical costs would be the same across the three manufacturers?  None of my prices include electrical except the Hot Spring includes the panel that I think might only be necessary for their tubs.

The Hot Spring cover lifter does seem higher cost (but likely better) than what their competitors are offering.  Their stairs seem in-line with what I'd expect others to cost.  The salt system definitely adds costs so if I took that away that would remove $800-$1000 to the gap.

The Hot Spring dealer keeps mentioning that the Sundance is just not comparable and similar, but even worse, for the Master Spas tub.  Is the Hot Spring tub really that superior (i.e. built so much better)?  The dealers all charge service charges of $50-$100 after first year of warranty.  I might try to see if another Hot Spring dealer is close to me.

They all will need a electrical disconnect. Hot Springs includes on because it’s not a typical one. Sundance and master will both need one as well. I like HS a little better but they are definitely comparable tubs to a sundance. There are a few users on here who have Master and do like them.