Safety of Methanesulfonic Acid to Lower PH in Hot Tub

[HotTubLung]

Does anyone have any experience, or knowledge with Methanesulfonic Acid for reducing hot tub PH and total alkalinity?

I was sold this product by a local dealer recently, tried it out and experienced very bad results including skin irritation and breathing difficulties after bathing.  The company that produces the chemical is IPG International Pool Group.  The product is called IPG Spa PH - with the active ingredient methanesulfonic  acid. 


There is literally nothing written on the web about using this chemical for aquatic recreation and that's a little odd/scary.  Thank you to anyone and everyone that can help.

[Jag8]

It is a product intended for pools not hot tubs. Did you buy it from a hot tub dealership or a pool supply store that sells chemicals for pools and hot tubs?

[HotTubLung]

Thanks for your reply.  The bottle says on it that it's intended for spa use.  I bought it from a company that sell both pools and hot tubs.  They also sell chemicals for both as well. 

I contacted IPG directly and they said they've never had a customer have an experience like I did and again reiterated it's designed for hot tubs.  I am inclined to think it's possible they aren't telling the truth, but I dont really know.

Where did you read MSA is for pools only?  I literally couldn't find any sources online showing it's use in pools or hot tubs.

Thanks!

[CanadianSpaTech]

Did you over use the required amount?
Did you enter the spa directly after applying.
Did you apply other chemicals all at the same time?

[HotTubLung]

Good questions.

Since I wasn't familure with the product I under used it slightly.  I have very hard water around 8.5PH and 230ppm alkalinity.  I added around 160ml divided into 2 doses on separate days, which brought the PH and Alk to slightly above recommended levels.  I didn't dilute the acid in water before pouring into the hot tub, which I later discovered I should have to prevent wear on the tub.  Nothing was written on the bottle except to pour 60ml at a time.  No ingredients listed either so I had no idea what I was dealing with.

I didn't enter the spa for 4 days after putting in any product due to chlorine levels being very high.  Free chlorine was 6.9ppm, total chlorine around 7.5ppm and combined chlorine at 0.59ppm. These levels were recorded by the pool and spa store where I purchased the MSA.

 I had recently done a drain, clean and refill and put two chlorine pucks in a slow release floater. Also I added a water conditioning product called Aqua Finesse.  All the products were added within a few minutes of each other, which I've recently learned from research isn't safe. I did however wear a mask and gloves when pouring, so no vapors were inhaled during water treatment.

  I try to use as little chemical product as possible, so I didnt shock the tub to reduce the chlorine, but rather kept the lid open for several hours throughout the 4 day span of not using it and the levels went down on their own to around 4ppm or slightly below.  I use test strips, so exact readings are difficult to interpret.

For further reference my hot tub is a Beachcomber 360 and it's only 9 months old.  I use it maybe once per week, but would use it more now that everything is closed. When I empty the tub I never see any scum lines or anything nasty, it just looks brand new.  A credit to Aqua Finesse it seems to keep the tub clean.

In the past I have used sodium bisfulate and never had any issues.  I'm still having respiratory issues, so I've avoided using the hot tub until I can evaluate the cause of the irritation.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

[CanadianSpaTech]

Could be bacteria in the plumbing lines. Google "hot tub lung". I would run a product called Ahh-Some through it and wipe all the surfaces down then re-fill. Super chlorinate it with spa shock using clean filters and let it run for a day then and do it all again a second time cleaning filters before and after. Also soak the filters in Ahh-some filter wash for 24 hours and clean them thoroughly or even replace them all together. Personally I would not use it until all this has been done.


 

[HotTubLung]

Thank you for the advice.  I will definently run a pipe cleaner through the tub and replace the filter again.  However, I am almost certain that wasn't what caused the irritation it's a required maintenance item coming up soon anyway.

Do you have any experience using the MSA product?  I haven't been able to find any information on it anywhere.

Also, I notice in another thread that you're a spa tech.  What part of Ontario do you service?  I have been looking for a person/company to help with maintaining my spa on a weekly basis and for minor repairs.

Thanks

[CanadianSpaTech]

Halton Region. Never heard of MSA. Not a good time for respiratory issues. Have you contacted medical advice? Why are you almost certain it is not bacterial related and connected to this product?

[HotTubLung]

Yes, definitely not a good time for this.  I have received advice and it's 99% unlikely related to the virus.  Normally I'd get some tests done, but hospitals are the most dangerous place to be at the moment, so hopefully the respiratory issues resolve on their own after weeks or possibly months.

The reason I know its chemical related and not from bacteria is that I had just spent hours in the hot tub the day before I thoroughly cleaned it and had zero issues.  The breathing difficulty came immediately after being in the tub for 30 mins.  Another sign it's not virus related as well.

I did have concerns the chlorine was high even though it read around the 4ppm range, so I kept the jets off for most of the soak.  When I did turn them on at the end of the 30 min session I immediately begin to cough and feel irritation in my throat and chest and exited the hot tub immediately. 

The symptoms now are shortness of breath and irritation/burning in the sinus area, especially when outside in the cold.  It seems whatever chemicals were off caused some sort of burn to my entire respiratory tract.  Fun times....... Hot tubs can be dangerous.

[swilly1000]

I'd say get tested dude.

[CanadianSpaTech]

Not saying it's Virus or Covid 19 related. So the day before you "cleaned" the spa. Did you use a plumbing line cleaner or just drain it, wipe down the surface and refill it? If you have not used a line disinfectant I strongly urge you to do so.

As for the high chlorine level yes is could cause lung "burn" and likely what has happened in your case. When you are sitting in the spa steam coming up for the water goes right to the nose. I always advise to my customers when they open the cover prior to use to step back for a few seconds to allow the spa to "off gas". Between the top of the water and the underside of the cover Ozone and chemical fumes will sit in that area and will be released when the cover is opened. I get a lot of customers that will add product to the water and then close the lid and walk away. Always leave the cover open for a minimum full 15 minute cycle before closing to allow off gassing. This will also minimize burning the underside of the cover. If you have added caustic chemicals like chlorine allow several hours if not a day before using to prevent getting a nose full. JMO

Hope you get past this quickly and are able to enjoy your spa going forward. Regards CST