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Author Topic: New Frog @ease system - water chemistry?  (Read 7018 times)

econoir

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New Frog @ease system - water chemistry?
« on: December 18, 2019, 11:20:41 am »
We have a new Artesian Island Captiva spa with an inline Frog @ease system. It is chlorine-based. I am finding it a bit confusing.

For example, the spa came with test strips but the strips do not have a traditional chlorine tab. It has a SmartChlor tab, which I am not sure how to interpret. For example, in my old tub I the test strip would indicate when I needed to put in more chlorine and I knew how much to add. Not sure about this system.

The dealer mentioned that with the inline Frog @ease system, the chlorine level runs lower because of the mineral cartridge. When I asked about heavy usage, he said just throw a teaspoon of chlorine in every other day. The test strips also have pH and Total Alkalinity, but I have no idea how this works with the low level of chlorine, or if these levels are regulated in the same way a spa without the Frog @ease system would be. How are people handling this?

Some sources have recommended getting a spa water test kit. I looked at the Taylor K-2006 and the Poolmaster 22260 kits. Neg reviews say the Taylor is too complicated and the Poolmaster is not accurate, esp for CYA and chlorine. On top of that, I am unsure if I would get helpful data from these kits with a Frog @ease system since these test kits seem to be made for pools. Also, they are very expensive relative to test strips, but again many people say these strips are not very accurate. What is the current thinking on this?

Finally, I saw a post where someone was using bulk chlorine to refill the chlorine cartridge in the Frog @ease system. Is that really possible?

Other sources also mention doing away with the expensive mineral cartridge in the Frog @ease system and using Nature2. The dealer did confirm that the 2nd filter in the system (for the circ pump) has a purple top that can be removed and I can put a Nature2 filter in there. Any thoughts on this?

Sorry for all the questions - getting my head around this is kind of overwhelming.


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New Frog @ease system - water chemistry?
« on: December 18, 2019, 11:20:41 am »

bud16415

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Re: New Frog @ease system - water chemistry?
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2019, 11:47:40 am »
My Caldera Geneva came with the inline frog and it was right before @ease came out so I started with bromine and the minerals. I messed around with it for about a year never happy with how it worked. My dealer also told me all the virtues of the minerals and over time I began to think it was a bunch of malarkey. I switched over to the @ease when it came out and it worked better and I just left a dead mineral in to fill the space. The @ease still was hard to adjust for different bather loads and I was always correcting by adding some dichlor after taking a test strip reading. I have been using the Clorox test strips. They test the most things and are the best price.

I finally came to the conclusion why buy the expensive @ease and then doctor it with dichlor if I’m adding a little why not just add enough and be done with it. so I left a dead @ease in as well and did something like a tablespoon of dichlor when we got out at night and by the next evening it had done its job and was mostly gone so I wasn’t soaking in more chlorine than needed.

That method worked good except with prolonged dichlor that has CYA stabilizer as an additive the CYA would get to high making the water chemistry wonky. So I started watching the level and when I hit 50PPM I switched from dichlor to regular household bleach, unscented and not the thickened easy pour just old time bleach like Clorox. It is even cheaper than dichlor and roughly 1 tablespoon of dichlor = 1/3 cup of bleach.

I now also pry off the top of my @ease cartridge and put the contents in a marked sealed plastic dichlor jar. When I go on vacation for a week I put one forth of the @ease in the cartridge and put it in the inline holder 2 weeks half etc. then I shock the tub with dichlor and when I come home it is perfect.

There is no bulk product that I know of that is the same as @ease and using any pool or hot tub product as a refill would go into the water way too fast. If you were using bromine then you could refill them with bulk bromine. I wouldn’t recommend going to bromine though.   :)     

econoir

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Re: New Frog @ease system - water chemistry?
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2019, 12:13:03 pm »
@bud16415:
Thank you very much for your thorough and thoughtful reply. That was very helpful.

castletonia

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Re: New Frog @ease system - water chemistry?
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2019, 12:17:27 pm »
Your test strip is designed to test the SmartChlor levels, not traditional free chlorine or total chlorine.  @ease works differently than regular chlorine.  You technically have a high level or reserve of total chlorine and a very low level of free chlorine.  Basically, the SmartChlor out indicator tab on the test strip will turn a shade of green.  If the color is equal to or darker than the color on the bottle you are good.  If it is lighter in color, then either your @ease cartridge needs to be turned up to a higher setting or is empty.

pH and alkalinity will read the same on those test strips as they would on any other system.  In my experience, the @ease system is a bit acidic and will drag the pH/alk down over time.

Personally I have no idea why you would switch to the nature2 instead of the frog for a mineral cartridge.  Unless there are places selling it cheaper, I pay a lot more for any nature2 product vs any frog product.

There is no bulk option to refill the SmartChlor cartridges.  If cost is your primary concern, do as bud16415 said and use regular old chlorine.  Any system that incorporates minerals, has a convenience factor, or promises to reduce the necessary chlorine requirement, it is going to cost more.

The Wizard of Spas

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Re: New Frog @ease system - water chemistry?
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2019, 01:45:31 pm »
A lot to unpack here so I'll go piece by piece:

1.  You're either all in with @ease or not.  Test with their testers and do what the say or just scrap it all together.  There isn't really a point to confuse yourself, so don't :)

2.  You're supposed to have an extremely low FREE chlorine (approx. 0.5ppm) with an extremely HIGH total chlorine (approx. 10-15ppm).  When you have small or large bather loads, instead of the free chlorine going completely to zero, the total chlorine is tapped into.  You'll have a static free chlorine level and always be pulling from the total chlorine.

3.  This system is all about pH.  Keep it 7.2-7.8 and good things happen.

4.  Keep the temp at 94F or above at all times for it to work.

A few other things:

-I use this in my tub.  Never have issues, as I keep the pH balanced.  I was on a standard mineral system and that is totally fine if that is the way you go.  But this ended up being cheaper as @ease roughly was the same price when you factor in mineral stick, shock, and dichlor.  Where I saved was not having to add a lot of shock or dichlor after heavy bather loads.  That can add up.

-I found this the be the most forgiving way to treat the water:  Minerals are dependent on shock or dichlor being added at least on a weekly basis, where the floater / inline cartridges are always dispensing.

-Really was happy with how soft the water is and devoid of a smell.

I have talked several times with the lead guys at King Technology when it first came out to get a better understanding as like many others, I simply didn't understand the product.  Not a #HumbleBrag, just trying to give you a sense that I understand and was confused at first too.

My current company doesn't sell this product so I hope this doesn't come off as me shilling for the brand.  Just had a lot of success with it and it really is easy.  I have found most issues I have personally resolved with my customers in terms of when I used to sell the product when I worked for another company was either lack of education (they didn't fully grasp it or my employees didn't explain it correctly) or over-education (people kept trying to apply other theories / products to the line vs. listening to me and simply doing what I directed them to do, based on @ease's directions).

I am happy to further help in any way.  I hope this helps.  Good luck moving forward.

econoir

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Re: New Frog @ease system - water chemistry?
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2019, 05:41:46 pm »
@castletonia, @TheWizardofSpas,
Many thanks! This is all great information.  :)

One question: my dealer said to shock my tub once a month. Some sources say every two weeks, some say every week. Is there a reason for the discrepancies?

Tman122

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Re: New Frog @ease system - water chemistry?
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2019, 06:02:16 pm »
@castletonia, @TheWizardofSpas,
Many thanks! This is all great information.  :)

One question: my dealer said to shock my tub once a month. Some sources say every two weeks, some say every week. Is there a reason for the discrepancies?

Bather load. Everyone needs to find out how often a super chlorinate is needed. If you use your tub every day maybe once a week is required but how much nasty did you introduce to the water? (how dirty were your bathers?) This is a variable number that's why the discrepancy in time frame.
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castletonia

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Re: New Frog @ease system - water chemistry?
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2019, 07:34:54 pm »
@castletonia, @TheWizardofSpas,
Many thanks! This is all great information.  :)

One question: my dealer said to shock my tub once a month. Some sources say every two weeks, some say every week. Is there a reason for the discrepancies?

Frog claims you only need to shock once per month.  In my personal experience, that is not sufficient.  I recommend to my customers to start out by shocking weekly and then if there is no issue to try and back off to every other week.

econoir

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Re: New Frog @ease system - water chemistry?
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2019, 10:38:44 pm »
Thanks for the "shocking" replies.  :)

Will start weekly and work from there.

bradleyabell

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Re: New Frog @ease system - water chemistry?
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2019, 08:52:58 am »
My Caldera Geneva came with the inline frog and it was right before @ease came out so I started with bromine and the minerals. I messed around with it for about a year never happy with how it worked. My dealer also told me all the virtues of the minerals and over time I began to think it was a bunch of malarkey. I switched over to the @ease when it came out and it worked better and I just left a dead mineral in to fill the space. The @ease still was hard to adjust for different bather loads and I was always correcting by adding some dichlor after taking a test strip reading. I have been using the Clorox test strips. They test the most things and are the best price.

I finally came to the conclusion why buy the expensive @ease and then doctor it with dichlor if I’m adding a little why not just add enough and be done with it. so I left a dead @ease in as well and did something like a tablespoon of dichlor when we got out at night and by the next evening it had done its job and was mostly gone so I wasn’t soaking in more chlorine than needed.

That method worked good except with prolonged dichlor that has CYA stabilizer as an additive the CYA would get to high making the water chemistry wonky. So I started watching the level and when I hit 50PPM I switched from dichlor to regular household bleach, unscented and not the thickened easy pour just old time bleach like Clorox. It is even cheaper than dichlor and roughly 1 tablespoon of dichlor = 1/3 cup of bleach.

I now also pry off the top of my @ease cartridge and put the contents in a marked sealed plastic dichlor jar. When I go on vacation for a week I put one forth of the @ease in the cartridge and put it in the inline holder 2 weeks half etc. then I shock the tub with dichlor and when I come home it is perfect.

There is no bulk product that I know of that is the same as @ease and using any pool or hot tub product as a refill would go into the water way too fast. If you were using bromine then you could refill them with bulk bromine. I wouldn’t recommend going to bromine though.   :)     

What do you use to monitor the CYA levels?  Would I still be able to use this bleach method with bromine?  I still typically shock with dichlor.

bud16415

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Re: New Frog @ease system - water chemistry?
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2019, 04:34:18 pm »
My Caldera Geneva came with the inline frog and it was right before @ease came out so I started with bromine and the minerals. I messed around with it for about a year never happy with how it worked. My dealer also told me all the virtues of the minerals and over time I began to think it was a bunch of malarkey. I switched over to the @ease when it came out and it worked better and I just left a dead mineral in to fill the space. The @ease still was hard to adjust for different bather loads and I was always correcting by adding some dichlor after taking a test strip reading. I have been using the Clorox test strips. They test the most things and are the best price.

I finally came to the conclusion why buy the expensive @ease and then doctor it with dichlor if I’m adding a little why not just add enough and be done with it. so I left a dead @ease in as well and did something like a tablespoon of dichlor when we got out at night and by the next evening it had done its job and was mostly gone so I wasn’t soaking in more chlorine than needed.

That method worked good except with prolonged dichlor that has CYA stabilizer as an additive the CYA would get to high making the water chemistry wonky. So I started watching the level and when I hit 50PPM I switched from dichlor to regular household bleach, unscented and not the thickened easy pour just old time bleach like Clorox. It is even cheaper than dichlor and roughly 1 tablespoon of dichlor = 1/3 cup of bleach.

I now also pry off the top of my @ease cartridge and put the contents in a marked sealed plastic dichlor jar. When I go on vacation for a week I put one forth of the @ease in the cartridge and put it in the inline holder 2 weeks half etc. then I shock the tub with dichlor and when I come home it is perfect.

There is no bulk product that I know of that is the same as @ease and using any pool or hot tub product as a refill would go into the water way too fast. If you were using bromine then you could refill them with bulk bromine. I wouldn’t recommend going to bromine though.   :)     

What do you use to monitor the CYA levels?  Would I still be able to use this bleach method with bromine?  I still typically shock with dichlor.


I use these test strips.

https://www.amazon.com/CLOROX-Pool-Spa-70050CLX-Strips/dp/B00PZZFSCA/ref=sr_1_4?gclid=CjwKCAiA3OzvBRBXEiwALNKDP3J_Mpluu-jW2PL-0OuZQMMOlO5zJk9laal90YHrZa8gXpP41chHyRoCI7oQAvD_BwE&hvadid=153714227207&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9006390&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t1&hvqmt=e&hvrand=12354871425455396524&hvtargid=aud-840076997981%3Akwd-28108687400&hydadcr=22067_9278611&keywords=clorox+test+strips&qid=1576790895&sr=8-4

With bromine any chlorine added is converted to bromine. Yes you should be able to shock with liquid bleach the same as dichlor and you will not be adding CYA. 

bradleyabell

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Re: New Frog @ease system - water chemistry?
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2019, 09:23:24 am »
Bud - Is low splash, or splash-less bleach OK?
« Last Edit: December 20, 2019, 09:33:54 am by bradleyabell »

bud16415

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Re: New Frog @ease system - water chemistry?
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2019, 11:23:05 am »
No I tried it and it gave me a foaming problem. Also scented bleach is not recommended. I buy the cheapest wal-mart brand and it is called household cleaning bleach. It comes in a slightly larger bottle and is a few cents cheaper than laundry bleach.  The clear plastic cup that came with some laundry soap was the perfect amount for my daily dose so that’s what I have been using. About a 1/3 cup.   

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Re: New Frog @ease system - water chemistry?
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2019, 11:23:05 am »

 

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