Best 110vAC spa money can buy?

[ratchett]

Hi all! After waiting 20 years to buy my first spa, I finally have the place and chance to do it (wife wouldn't let me own one in our previous home).  Our new house had a pool and patio installed (by the previous owners) with the intention to install a hot tub eventually. The electrician even installed a fresh dedicated 20-amp 110vAC line for the eventual spa.  I presume they never wired 220AC because in this Zone10 climate, a 110AC tub is usually enough for the average person.

I know I can affordably run a fresh 220vAC line (holding a quote for it now), but the truth of the matter is that I'm a very warm climate (Florida's Space Coast). I don't *care* if temperature drops several degrees (since the heater will not run when the jets are running) .  The problem is that I intend to rebuild the patio/pool area once I build the guest-wing of the house.  So I am planning to upgrade in 5-10 years once I know I love the spa life (and I know the final true location for a full size spa).  That said, I want nothing but the best construction quality for numerous reasons (I am an engineer after all, I can understand and appreciate the difference between a pressure-treated wood and tool-grade plastic support structure for long term use).  I have also budgeted accordingly for this investment.

After extensive research into literally every name brand on the market (HotSpring, Jacuzzi, Marquis, D1, Sundance, Caldera, Bullfrog, Arctic, Canadian Spa, etc), I have settled on a 2019 Hotspring Highlife model Jetsetter (base model which is 110AC compatible, previously was considered the Jetsetter NXT model)




I'm getting quite a decent deal on the tub (about $3k less than another dealer in my area for the same make/model tub).   But my hesitation is the size of the tub.....  I am planning to use it 99% of the time exclusively (no kids/family aside from the wife who does not like warm water and baths at all).  I am 5-foot 11 inches so it sounds like the lounger will fit me well enough (Neither dealer I visited had a jetsetter with water for testing so I couldn't wet-test this specific model).   My wife is also the same height as me so I suspect she'll even be comfortable with the lounger.  The Patio is large enough for really any size tub I want, but I don't think I NEED a large tub - 3-seater sounds more than enough for my own personal needs at this time.

However I just don't know if there's a better/larger option on the market.  Am I really going to hate the lounger seat? doesn't sound like it since I'm the right size for it. The hotspring Prodigy would also fit the space and is 110AC, but I'd lose a lounger seat in the process.

I've tried to think long and hard about the decision I feel like I'm making the right choice as a beginner, but I'd like to hear from some experts with any advice in my situation.

My preferred HotSpring dealer also refurbishes and resells trade-in HotSpring spas, so if/when I decide I want to trade in and upgrade in several years to a full size 5/6 seater tub I can do that and still recover "some" of my investment (which in reality I'm getting this tub for a great deal, within my budget).


I really haven't found much else in 110AC which really catches my eye like these new HotSpring Highlife NXT spas.  The Jacuzzi line of spa's (300 and 400 series) just don't have that same sexy modern design I'd like to see (even Sundance's mid-tier lineup looked cooler than Jacuzzi - even though I know they're made by the same company!)


(Note - I am NOT getting the ACE system installed because my wife didn't seem to like the "skin-feel" of the one she wet-tested with her hand - I'll be using the other ozone/chlorine system they sell. I've also read enough horror stories and the dealer even steered me away from the ACE system from a reliability standpoint to make it not worth my while to fight the boss on this one haha)

[BullFrogSpasMN]

Nice little spa but with a 1.5 HP max pump size on 110 Volt circuit it definitely wouldn't have enough jet power for my liking but it sounds like you are going into this with reasonable expectations so you know what to expect...that said the Jetsetter from Hot Spring and the A5L from Bullfrog are definitely 2 of the 'nicest/smallest' tubs I've sold...both full foam insulation (real full foam, not 10" of dead air space like 98% of them have) a complete maintenance free construction, nice jetting, nice cabinet options, touchscreen control options, interior & exterior lights, high end warranty, etc. so don't think you could really go wrong with either. Good Luck!

[ratchett]

Thanks for your response!

I honestly fell in love with the aesthetics of the JetSetter spa from the moment I saw it! I agree the pump is limited by the 110AC system, but it appears they have limited the jet-count on this version so the pump can handle the demands.  The Jetsetter LX is a 220-only version of the spa which adds 4 jets to the calfs on the lounger, and 4 extra jets to one of the seats, so overall I wouldn't gain much from this configuration.  Of course if I went up to a 220 I might as well splurge on something a bit larger so I have choices.

I've heard that HotSpring pumps tend to run a bit weaker than some other spas like Bullfrog even on the 220v systems, but this is my first spa. I really don't know how much I want to be blown out of my seat (honestly I'm in it for the hot soak in deeper-than-bathroom-tub water, the massaging features are really an added bonus haha)

I know both the Bullfrog A-series and the Hotspring Highlife use full-foam insulation, but do you know if Bullfrog uses multi-density foams depending on location like the Hotspring or is it the same density throughout?

Last question while I have you - I see in the marketing brochures that a "110-version" is available on the bullfrog A5L, but I'm having hard time seeing if there's any difference between the 220 and 110version of the A5L/R5L.  Do you happen to know if the 110-version of the A5L/R5L retain the lower lumbar and palm jets on the lounge - or do they remove those small jets to save horsepower for the exchangeable JetPacks?

I really like some of the features of the Bullfrog, but the aesthetics of the Hotsprings Jetsetter really "grab me"

[d00nut]

When we sold Bullfrog, we brought in a couple R5L's in on a 110V.  Keep in mind, that they just put a smaller pump in the spa, as they don't actually change anything else.

Also, their 110V is 15A, so a true plug n play versus the Hot Spring 110V 20A.

We thought it would sell really well but you really do need to turn off 2 jet packs in the A5L or 1 in the R5L in order to get pressure even somewhat close to the 220V version. 

As with everything, wet test if you can. 

I agree, HSS doesn't have the most powerful jets compared to other spas I've sat in, but they are consistent.  A Jetsetter feels exactly like a Jetsetter LX... minus the calf jets and hip jets in certain positions

[ratchett]

When we sold Bullfrog, we brought in a couple R5L's in on a 110V.  Keep in mind, that they just put a smaller pump in the spa, as they don't actually change anything else.

Also, their 110V is 15A, so a true plug n play versus the Hot Spring 110V 20A.

We thought it would sell really well but you really do need to turn off 2 jet packs in the A5L or 1 in the R5L in order to get pressure even somewhat close to the 220V version. 

As with everything, wet test if you can. 

I agree, HSS doesn't have the most powerful jets compared to other spas I've sat in, but they are consistent.  A Jetsetter feels exactly like a Jetsetter LX... minus the calf jets and hip jets in certain positions

Awesome! Thanks for your feedback!  I noticed that most every other tub is a true 110V/15amp AC.  The Jetsetter is the only one I noticed which is rated for 115/20amp which luckily my house seems wired for - they had a box with a blank plate about 18 inches off the ground using proper conduit and everything.  My dealer said they are supplying/installing the outlet which the Jetsetter will plug into, so I don't even need to worry about installing a GFCI outlet or anything which is awesome.

Since it's just myself 99% of the time, I plan on turning off all the jets aside from the one I'm sitting in to maximize pressure if necessary.  But like I said, I'm looking for more of a soak as opposed to a deep tissue massage so I'm not all that worried about that aspect (although wrist/palm massagers would be nice since carpal tunnel seems to run in the family)

Good to know the Jetsetter and the LX have the same pressure from the jets which are common on both, I was hopeful that would be the case.

In reality this is a starter spa for me to ensure I really like them before I splurge on a fully loaded top of the line model once I know exactly what I do and don't like in a spa.

That said, I'm still a bit concerned about the lounger.  Seems like it's a love it or hate it..... Would wet testing a different hotspring lounger one time tell me if I'll like it or not enough to use it all the time?   The Prodigy seems quite appealing, if I can get over losing the lounger! haha

Do you find many service calls on the Jetsetter NXT models? My dealer would be about 50 miles away so they cannot guarantee next-day warranty service and that does have me a bit concerned (although they are really an excellent company which I have a good feeling about - small family run business, dealing/servicing exclusively with HotSpring and nothing else)

[MarKee]

Make sure to consider the Marquis Spirit, in my opinion the best looking small/medium size 110v on the market with the curved front side. Sounds like you’ve checked out a lot of the brands, but try to see the Spirit model in person if you haven’t already.

[ratchett]

Make sure to consider the Marquis Spirit, in my opinion the best looking small/medium size 110v on the market with the curved front side. Sounds like you’ve checked out a lot of the brands, but try to see the Spirit model in person if you haven’t already.

For sure I did look into the Marquis Spirit as I'd heard some good things about it.  Personally I don't care for the aestetics of the Spirit. However the Vector21 series from Marquis was much more attractive to me - the Vector21 65L looks pretty slick, but I'm getting a sense that the Vector21 series is not the premier product from Marquis, but more of a step down mid-grade level product. 

Also I'm noticing most 110AC tubs are 15amp which make sense given that's what most people would have in a home.  A dedicated 115AC 20-amp service for a tub seems to be limited to the HotSpring Jetsetter.  Which has me curious - why did the Hotspring engineers decide they absolutely needed a 20-amp service?  Is that extra 5amps used for additional electronics?   To handle the power of the pump?   I'm honestly curious since I know a 110AC spa is going to have serious limitations compared to other tubs with multiple pumps and whatnot running on a 220

[bud16415]

Well you have waited 20 years I won’t suggest you wait 5 more years until the addition is built just to have the benefits of a 240V tub. On the other hand a five year old 120V tub doesn’t have much resale value and a quality tub regardless of voltage should last 20 plus years if taken care of.

We bought our first tub about 5 years ago and when shopping for it I was the cheep one and suggesting a starter tub maybe even a 120V to keep things simple and she wanted to go with what we both knew we wanted and enjoy it for as many years as we can.

So my suggestion might be bite the bullet and get the 5 year tub now and just move it when the addition is on.

Some things we have learned and we do live in a very cold place in winter but even during our warm summers our tub gets used a lot and we have it on a lower setting in the summer but one degree winter or summer in the water temp is noticeable and even person to person we sometimes wish we had half degree control. I personally want the ability to have heat and jets run together even in summer.

Our tub is 50A and it is broken down between two 240V GFCI breakers a 20A and a 30A the 30A is the pumps and the 20A is just the heater. It is how Caldera / HotSprings does it on some models. So for that reason alone I feel I wouldn’t have the pump power I want on a 20A supply.

Ether way you go 20 years is a long wait (I know) jump in you know you are going to love it. 

[The Wizard of Spas]

We have a lot of dealers in Florida and we expanded our "plug & play" line to better fit that market.  I think the biggest thing about plug & play is power:  If you like the output on a unit like that, you do reap the benefits of a cost-effective spa due to your climate. 

In my years of being in this industry, I do caution that a lot of plug & play units tend to be the least of the quality in terms of what a brand offers.  This is indeed a broad, generalized statement so I understand the self-apparent issues in noting that.  Regardless, I'd be sure to continue to research the build, quality of components, build techniques, etc. that are available in that line and ask how it may differ from the more standard lines that are offered by the brand.  As an engineer, I am sure you're already on top of that!

As others have noted, this is not the most efficient of spas in terms of monthly energy bills, as 220v will certainly be cheaper long-term.  I've seen the power cords fry over the life of the spa and need to be replaced (this is true for the myriad of brands I have sold over the years so I am not picking on anyone specifically).  Just be aware.

If you're ok with all of this, then that is your answer.  Usually I'd caution against an initial plug & play purchase with a new spa planned on in 5 years or so, but indeed a warm climate like yours alleviates many of the issues one could find with going plug & play.

I hope this helps.  Good luck moving forward.

[BullFrogSpasMN]

Make sure to consider the Marquis Spirit, in my opinion the best looking small/medium size 110v on the market with the curved front side. Sounds like you’ve checked out a lot of the brands, but try to see the Spirit model in person if you haven’t already.

For sure I did look into the Marquis Spirit as I'd heard some good things about it.  Personally I don't care for the aestetics of the Spirit. However the Vector21 series from Marquis was much more attractive to me - the Vector21 65L looks pretty slick, but I'm getting a sense that the Vector21 series is not the premier product from Marquis, but more of a step down mid-grade level product. 

Also I'm noticing most 110AC tubs are 15amp which make sense given that's what most people would have in a home.  A dedicated 115AC 20-amp service for a tub seems to be limited to the HotSpring Jetsetter.  Which has me curious - why did the Hotspring engineers decide they absolutely needed a 20-amp service?  Is that extra 5amps used for additional electronics?   To handle the power of the pump?   I'm honestly curious since I know a 110AC spa is going to have serious limitations compared to other tubs with multiple pumps and whatnot running on a 220

it basically comes down to the size of the pump and heater and how the manufacturer decides to allocate the power....it appears the Jetsetter uses a 1.65HP Pump so they need all of that 20 amps, even the Nordic line I sell uses a 1.5HP pump and needs 20 amps as well...don't quote me on this but I believe the only way to get a 15 amp 110v tub is to use a pump size smaller than 1.3HP which is what the 110v A5L uses at 15 amps...anything larger will require 20 amps which makes sense for the Jetsetter, they wanna get the biggest pump they can on 110v to move that moto-massage jet which is a high GPM jet.

[d00nut]

When we sold Bullfrog, we brought in a couple R5L's in on a 110V.  Keep in mind, that they just put a smaller pump in the spa, as they don't actually change anything else.

Also, their 110V is 15A, so a true plug n play versus the Hot Spring 110V 20A.

We thought it would sell really well but you really do need to turn off 2 jet packs in the A5L or 1 in the R5L in order to get pressure even somewhat close to the 220V version. 

As with everything, wet test if you can. 

I agree, HSS doesn't have the most powerful jets compared to other spas I've sat in, but they are consistent.  A Jetsetter feels exactly like a Jetsetter LX... minus the calf jets and hip jets in certain positions

Awesome! Thanks for your feedback!  I noticed that most every other tub is a true 110V/15amp AC.  The Jetsetter is the only one I noticed which is rated for 115/20amp which luckily my house seems wired for - they had a box with a blank plate about 18 inches off the ground using proper conduit and everything.  My dealer said they are supplying/installing the outlet which the Jetsetter will plug into, so I don't even need to worry about installing a GFCI outlet or anything which is awesome.

Since it's just myself 99% of the time, I plan on turning off all the jets aside from the one I'm sitting in to maximize pressure if necessary.  But like I said, I'm looking for more of a soak as opposed to a deep tissue massage so I'm not all that worried about that aspect (although wrist/palm massagers would be nice since carpal tunnel seems to run in the family)

Good to know the Jetsetter and the LX have the same pressure from the jets which are common on both, I was hopeful that would be the case.

In reality this is a starter spa for me to ensure I really like them before I splurge on a fully loaded top of the line model once I know exactly what I do and don't like in a spa.

That said, I'm still a bit concerned about the lounger.  Seems like it's a love it or hate it..... Would wet testing a different hotspring lounger one time tell me if I'll like it or not enough to use it all the time?   The Prodigy seems quite appealing, if I can get over losing the lounger! haha

Do you find many service calls on the Jetsetter NXT models? My dealer would be about 50 miles away so they cannot guarantee next-day warranty service and that does have me a bit concerned (although they are really an excellent company which I have a good feeling about - small family run business, dealing/servicing exclusively with HotSpring and nothing else)

Out of all the Spas you are talking about, Bullfrog A5L, Hot Spring Jetsetter, and the Marquis Spirit... I don't think I would call those starter spas . They are a bit more than that!

Loungers are pretty much 100% found in spas of that size.  I don't mind the lounger at all, but I like bigger spas personally, so I generally avoid them... again, it's a personal thing.  If you like to just soak, I'd just recommend getting a hot tub with a circulation pump.  Both the Bullfrog and the Hot Spring can have those (optional on BF, standard on HSS)

I am like you.  Ground beef style 20/80.  20% of the time I use the jets, 80% of the time I'm a soaker... I just want absolute quiet.

Highlife spas, in general, have low service returns but in all fairness... so does everything else you are looking at.  If they are upfront with how fast they can get to you, and what co-pays if any are there... I would be happy with that.  I would just want to make sure that if there is an issue, you would not be abandoned

[ratchett]

Nice! Thanks guys for the answers! I really appreciate the feedback from everyone!

Well you have waited 20 years I won’t suggest you wait 5 more years until the addition is built just to have the benefits of a 240V tub. On the other hand a five year old 120V tub doesn’t have much resale value and a quality tub regardless of voltage should last 20 plus years if taken care of.

We bought our first tub about 5 years ago and when shopping for it I was the cheep one and suggesting a starter tub maybe even a 120V to keep things simple and she wanted to go with what we both knew we wanted and enjoy it for as many years as we can.

So my suggestion might be bite the bullet and get the 5 year tub now and just move it when the addition is on.

Funny you mention that.  So I really did a lot of consideration on what 240v tubs I could install, and how the wiring would be done etc.  Another thing I forgot to mention is that this tub is being installed literally on the other side of a (cinderblock) bedroom wall.  The tub will be about six feet from our heads when we sleep at night, so sound was a major consideration.   

I also realize the resale price will be lower, so I might just end up keeping this tub in addition to upgrading to a second tub.  This Jetsetter is small enough to fit through doorways, so I could eventually relocate it to either another location on the property or the eventual planned vacation house in the future.   

In my years of being in this industry, I do caution that a lot of plug & play units tend to be the least of the quality in terms of what a brand offers.  This is indeed a broad, generalized statement so I understand the self-apparent issues in noting that.  Regardless, I'd be sure to continue to research the build, quality of components, build techniques, etc. that are available in that line and ask how it may differ from the more standard lines that are offered by the brand.  As an engineer, I am sure you're already on top of that!

Thanks for that! I totally know where you are coming from.  I often find these 2/3 person spa's excluded from the top-tier line from many spa dealers. The Jetsetter seems to be one of the few spa's I've discovered which uses the same build quality and components as other highlife series models, they simply skimped on jet count to compensate.    Bullfrog and Marquis are the only two other brands which seem to offer a premier-trim package 110AC spa (Jacuzzi for example does have a 110AC J315, but the J415 is 220 only, and they don't even make a 500-series 3-person spa).   

For sure I have learned so much about construction quality of tubs reading a lot of the old posts on this forum, and other places around the internet. Just because I plan on upgrading in 5 years doesn't mean I fully intend to sell this tub, if I can get 15+ years of use out of it somewhere somehow, that would be awesome (and knowing me, there's a distinct possibility I would keep the spa since I'm going all out on the investment).

[ratchett]

(continuing reply because of character limit lol - I like to type)

it basically comes down to the size of the pump and heater and how the manufacturer decides to allocate the power....it appears the Jetsetter uses a 1.65HP Pump so they need all of that 20 amps, even the Nordic line I sell uses a 1.5HP pump and needs 20 amps as well...don't quote me on this but I believe the only way to get a 15 amp 110v tub is to use a pump size smaller than 1.3HP which is what the 110v A5L uses at 15 amps...anything larger will require 20 amps which makes sense for the Jetsetter, they wanna get the biggest pump they can on 110v to move that moto-massage jet which is a high GPM jet.

Thank you for breaking it down for me.  I really didn't bother to look at pump ratings since I had no clue how reliable they would be (especially for a 110AC spa) - I figured that would be one of those overrated specs which really varies from brand to brand. Although I did surmise the MotoMassager might have been the reason why they needed that extra power in a 110AC unit. 

Because honestly - I bet 99% of the market for a 110AC unit is a first-time buyer, trying to plug it into a spare outlet without hiring an electrician.  They're also usually on a tight budget looking to get the cheapest/bestest tub they can get.    I admit I did have to double my budget from my original expectations, but I also wanted to get the highest quality filtration and cleaning possible (which for my needs/preference seems to be a continuous circ pump and a CD ozonator), and I wanted to spend more so I could get a quiet spa which wouldn't disturb us during our sleep.

(Note - I have already listened to a hotspring spa's running the continuous circ pump and have confirmed with my wife they are quiet enough we won't be disturbed at night by the quiet hum of the circ pump)


Thanks again for all the help ya'll.  I'm feeling very comfortable in my research and purchase.  I'm very likely going to move forward with my jetsetter purchase (which like I said, is conveniently already in stock - all they had to do was swap out the 4 access panels with panels they had on another jetsetter in the warehouse).  I'll be heading up to the spa this week to perform a final inspection of the spa and take one final wet-test (in another Highlife series spa to test out the lounger) and schedule a delivery.    If I'm lucky, we'll have the Jetsetter installed and running next weekend! 

I went into this purchase thinking I would be lucky if I had the tub built, shipped, and delivered after Thanksgiving

Still have a lot to learn about care/maintenance of spa's, but I'm excited to learn. I'm certain you'll be seeing more of me around this forum haha

Highlife spas, in general, have low service returns but in all fairness... so does everything else you are looking at.  If they are upfront with how fast they can get to you, and what co-pays if any are there... I would be happy with that.  I would just want to make sure that if there is an issue, you would not be abandoned

Yep, I figure full-foam is the way to go if I want to give my spa the best chance of some plumbing not rattling loose from vibrations and wear.  And I didn't want the frame to rust/rot away as fast as other cheaper 110AC spa's

After reading this forum, I learned a lot about the value of the purchasing from a reputable dealer with a good service department. That really helped when I started my search for a spa, not only was I looking at the spas themselves, but I was also interviewing the store asking them questions about their service departments, maintenance costs, etc.

My local "big backyard" type store which sold Jacuzzi and HotSpring Spas (practically at MSRP prices, hardly any discount!) seemed extremely overpriced and inexperienced with specific brands of products.  They were more interested in wealthy loaded customers looking to purchase a complete dream backyard from one store, and I didn't appreciate that - a jack of all is a master of none. 

Luckily I found another HotSpring dealer north of me who is just awesome - family run business selling HotSpring exclusively for decades.  Hundreds of positive customer reviews online to research, and they have their own in-house service technicians with a high employee retention rate.   My sales rep knew the HotSprings Highlife series inside and out. Not once has she given me an inaccurate statement (or trash-talked any other brand), and their prices were much better than the other dealer.    Honestly out of all the spa dealers in my region which I have encountered, they are the one dealer I like the most because it seems like they genuinely care about the satisfaction of their customers before and after their investment.   

[d00nut]

(continuing reply because of character limit lol - I like to type)uckily I found another HotSpring dealer north of me who is just awesome - family run business selling HotSpring exclusively for decades.  Hundreds of positive customer reviews online to research, and they have their own in-house service technicians with a high employee retention rate.   My sales rep knew the HotSprings Highlife series inside and out. Not once has she given me an inaccurate statement (or trash-talked any other brand), and their prices were much better than the other dealer.    Honestly out of all the spa dealers in my region which I have encountered, they are the one dealer I like the most because it seems like they genuinely care about the satisfaction of their customers before and after their investment.

That's a rare find.  I think that's the best way to get business though.  Not trashing others, being honest, being knowledgable... but just caring.  We do our best to follow that model... which is probably why I have a hard time finding employees that fit our mold

[ratchett]

That's a rare find.  I think that's the best way to get business though.  Not trashing others, being honest, being knowledgable... but just caring.  We do our best to follow that model... which is probably why I have a hard time finding employees that fit our mold

Absolutely.  And their google/yelp reviews (literally hundreds of them) reflect that constant dedication to customer service over the decades.  That's why they were literally the first place I started shopping (coincidentally the first spa I looked at is the one I'm buying). 

In this modern era of social media, I truly believe satisfied customers can do enough talking to generate business for a company to survive without spending much on "traditional" advertising.

As a small business owner myself, I can appreciate a company which specializes in one product/brand exclusively. I often go out of my way to seek out these sorts of businesses naturally so it felt like just a perfect fit - I like their business model and appreciate their competitive pricing.  No other spa dealer I visited since then held a candle to my (soon to be) Hotspring dealer.

Naturally, if I were buying a "budget priced" spa at less than half the price, I wouldn't expect much in terms of post-sale service.  But given the investment, I'm happy to know I have a direct contact to my dealer and sales rep to answer any question or problems I have with my first spa. Which felt important to me since I really don't know how hard it will be to maintain the water balance on my first tub.


For now, I think it sounds like I'm sticking with the Jetsetter unless my lounger wet-test goes extremely bad, at which point I'll be upgrading to the Highlife Prodigy which would also fit the space and is 115AC compatible.