Seeking to go completely "Green", answers from other green people appreciated

[Lilytoes]

Hello there. Before writing this, I want to first disclose I am in full awareness of both sides of the debate regarding using a natural system to keep water pristine and safe. I know the devil's advocate side.

THE STORY: We recently purchased a little Garden Spa from Artesian Spas, the 205 gallon "IRIS" model. Its lovely and perfect for two.
Now, my significant other used Food grade (35%) H202 for years with past hot tubs he's owned in previous relationships. It always worked perfectly. Since he hasn't done it in years and is foggy on the whole thing, he's leaving me in charge of the chemistry balancing. I actually own a skin care business where I work with many different organic compounds (non synthetic versions of known chemicals in nature), and so I am not a total newbie to understanding PH and TA and working with chemicals.

What I am trying to understand is how I might be able to balance the calcium while using a Food grade H202 system. I feel strongly about H202 being the most non-toxic way to keep water pristine. It is used in the industry all over the world to sterilize water and there 100's of examples out there of it being used professionally as the most non-toxic way to treat water. It is also proven to be the most effective. I feel utterly sick every time I come near Chlorine or Bromine infused pools or spas. I am sensitive to it. When I get into a H202 treated spa, I feel healthy and renewed. The body speaks and I believe in listening to it. I also find it worthy of mention that a big chunk of people I know who have had a lifetime exposed to these toxic heavily marketed pool/spa chemicals have ended up getting skin cancer, yet, they still sing the praises of how these chemicals are marketed as the "standard". Other common pool chemicals I have thoroughly researched the science on (official scientific studies from research universities), and it is horrifying how dangerous they are when considering bathing in a toxic soup daily and think you're helping your body. After all, our skin is the largest organ on our body and absorbs everything we choose to put on it. These things will enter your blood stream and often times cannot be removed as they build up in the fatty body tissues over the years.

An oxygen rich environment however, does not harm.  It is of course is of crucial importance to make sure you understand your ratios since food grade H202 in its pure form is dangerous. Diluted properly, its very healing and nourishing. Its only by-product is Oxygen, and yes it is a sanitizer though I know many believe its not, that is probably because they have little experience working with 35% and making your own 3% dilutions for cleaning at home. So, I have no qualms about using 35% H202 as my choice of sanitizer. We are using it now, and balancing that with ACV in small doses to lower the TA and PH.

THE ISSUE I'm needing help on (Calling all green folks): The problem I'm facing is trying to find another natural means of balancing the Calcium and PH at the same time. I could be wrong, but not understanding how to balance the Calcium naturally (without synthetic forms) is causing the TA and PH to shoot off in opposite directions with the PH being a tad too high (almost in the 8.5 range), and the TA being a tad too low. Am I right in assuming Calcium helps these two to not shoot all over the place? I have read that white or Apple cider vinegar is a safe means of lowering TA/PH, however I can't compromise anymore of the TA lowering as its already at the lowest "safe" zone, while the PH is a little too high. My H202 has been properly added and I do test for peroxide levels being in the recommended zone (40-80ppm). That part is all good to go. We also have an ozonator which assists the H202 even more.

Can any green people out there tell me some natural means of balancing all this when using 35% food grade? I have searched forums high and low and have found many discussing food grade H202, however none discussing how to balance food grade H202 35% with Calcium, PH, and TA in conjunction with it. Ideas, theories, experiences?

[NBonugli]

Good afternoon, check out Spa Marvel...it may be the answer you are looking for. It's natural enzyme based.

https://spamarvel.com/

Nick B
Middleton, Ma

[Sam]

Good afternoon, check out Spa Marvel...it may be the answer you are looking for. It's natural enzyme based.

https://spamarvel.com/

Nick B
Middleton, Ma

Spa marvel still requires pretty much daily doses of chlorine.  She is asking for a way to adjust calcium.  My recommendation would be to not worry about balancing calcium.

[Lilytoes]

How about PH adjustment when dealing with Food grade Peroxide? Thank you for replying... Any natural ways?

[Tman122]

How about PH adjustment when dealing with Food grade Peroxide? Thank you for replying... Any natural ways?

Soda ash (borax) brings it up and lemon juice brings it down.

[Lilytoes]

How about PH adjustment when dealing with Food grade Peroxide? Thank you for replying... Any natural ways?

Soda ash (borax) brings it up and lemon juice brings it down.

Thank you, but has anyone tried that in conjunction with food grade H202? Do you know people who use this system?

[BullFrogSpasMN]

How about PH adjustment when dealing with Food grade Peroxide? Thank you for replying... Any natural ways?

Soda ash (borax) brings it up and lemon juice brings it down.

Thank you, but has anyone tried that in conjunction with food grade H202? Do you know people who use this system?

using hydrogen peroxide is nothing new to the spa industry, it's been around quite some time as an alternative to chlorine/bromine so your 'traditional' ph adjusters (Sodium Bicarbonate aka Baking Soda) will increase ph/Alkalinity and Sodium Bisulfate aka dry acid will lower ph/Alkalinity.  Calcium Hardness can be increased with liquid calcium but only lowered by using a softer water source to fill the spa...Good Luck!

[Lilytoes]

How about PH adjustment when dealing with Food grade Peroxide? Thank you for replying... Any natural ways?

Soda ash (borax) brings it up and lemon juice brings it down.

Thank you, but has anyone tried that in conjunction with food grade H202? Do you know people who use this system?

using hydrogen peroxide is nothing new to the spa industry, it's been around quite some time as an alternative to chlorine/bromine so your 'traditional' ph adjusters (Sodium Bicarbonate aka Baking Soda) will increase ph/Alkalinity and Sodium Bisulfate aka dry acid will lower ph/Alkalinity.  Calcium Hardness can be increased with liquid calcium but only lowered by using a softer water source to fill the spa...Good Luck!

Thanks! I think I am getting the gist of it. I had an issue of having too high of a PH (8.something), and too low of TA (well below 80ppm). I went ahead and tried to decrease the PH with Apple cider vinegar (you don't need very much, 1/2 cup did it for me, and there was no vinegar smell at all). Then I used only 2 tablespoons of Baking Soda. Both came to the middle with the TA raising to around 100ppm and the PH decreasing to a normal 7.8-ish. Even if we have to adjust this every 2-3 days or so (we'll see how it goes), I still find that very cost effective to a harsh chemical system. I am stoked!

[BullFrogSpasMN]

How about PH adjustment when dealing with Food grade Peroxide? Thank you for replying... Any natural ways?

Soda ash (borax) brings it up and lemon juice brings it down.

Thank you, but has anyone tried that in conjunction with food grade H202? Do you know people who use this system?

using hydrogen peroxide is nothing new to the spa industry, it's been around quite some time as an alternative to chlorine/bromine so your 'traditional' ph adjusters (Sodium Bicarbonate aka Baking Soda) will increase ph/Alkalinity and Sodium Bisulfate aka dry acid will lower ph/Alkalinity.  Calcium Hardness can be increased with liquid calcium but only lowered by using a softer water source to fill the spa...Good Luck!

Thanks! I think I am getting the gist of it. I had an issue of having too high of a PH (8.something), and too low of TA (well below 80ppm). I went ahead and tried to decrease the PH with Apple cider vinegar (you don't need very much, 1/2 cup did it for me, and there was no vinegar smell at all). Then I used only 2 tablespoons of Baking Soda. Both came to the middle with the TA raising to around 100ppm and the PH decreasing to a normal 7.8-ish. Even if we have to adjust this every 2-3 days or so (we'll see how it goes), I still find that very cost effective to a harsh chemical system. I am stoked!

Just keep in mind Alkalinity and pH buffer off of each other so your goal is to 'mess around with' <----very scientific term...your Alkalinity until your pH stabilizes so you don't have to adjust it every few days, some people need to run their Alkalinity around 40-50ppm to 'lock' their pH level in where some it may be 80-120 ppm, every water source is a little different of course.  Just keep some baking soda and acid (vinegar, sodium bisulfate from a pool/spa dealer, etc) on hand along with your weekly dose of hydrogen peroxide and you should be fine!

[Tman122]

Just keep in mind Alkalinity and pH buffer off of each other so your goal is to 'mess around with' <----very scientific term...your Alkalinity until your pH stabilizes so you don't have to adjust it every few days, some people need to run their Alkalinity around 40-50ppm to 'lock' their pH level in where some it may be 80-120 ppm, every water source is a little different of course.  Just keep some baking soda and acid (vinegar, sodium bisulfate from a pool/spa dealer, etc) on hand along with your weekly dose of hydrogen peroxide and you should be fine!

"messing around with"= extensive field research

[Lilytoes]

How about PH adjustment when dealing with Food grade Peroxide? Thank you for replying... Any natural ways?

Soda ash (borax) brings it up and lemon juice brings it down.

Thank you, but has anyone tried that in conjunction with food grade H202? Do you know people who use this system?

using hydrogen peroxide is nothing new to the spa industry, it's been around quite some time as an alternative to chlorine/bromine so your 'traditional' ph adjusters (Sodium Bicarbonate aka Baking Soda) will increase ph/Alkalinity and Sodium Bisulfate aka dry acid will lower ph/Alkalinity.  Calcium Hardness can be increased with liquid calcium but only lowered by using a softer water source to fill the spa...Good Luck!

Thanks! I think I am getting the gist of it. I had an issue of having too high of a PH (8.something), and too low of TA (well below 80ppm). I went ahead and tried to decrease the PH with Apple cider vinegar (you don't need very much, 1/2 cup did it for me, and there was no vinegar smell at all). Then I used only 2 tablespoons of Baking Soda. Both came to the middle with the TA raising to around 100ppm and the PH decreasing to a normal 7.8-ish. Even if we have to adjust this every 2-3 days or so (we'll see how it goes), I still find that very cost effective to a harsh chemical system. I am stoked!

Just keep in mind Alkalinity and pH buffer off of each other so your goal is to 'mess around with' <----very scientific term...your Alkalinity until your pH stabilizes so you don't have to adjust it every few days, some people need to run their Alkalinity around 40-50ppm to 'lock' their pH level in where some it may be 80-120 ppm, every water source is a little different of course.  Just keep some baking soda and acid (vinegar, sodium bisulfate from a pool/spa dealer, etc) on hand along with your weekly dose of hydrogen peroxide and you should be fine!

Thank you again.. I will keep this in mind.

I'll try to update every now and then to let others know how its working out.

Lastly, out of curiosity, do you (or anyone else for that matter) know anything about adding silver or copper? Can these be combined with H202 safely, and if so, how do they effect PH/TA levels?