Wood vs metal frame

[ebirrane]

Hence the major issue - quality manufacturing is how you prep your materials, not in what materials you use.  Either can be made appropriate and "safe".  The idea that wood is inherently risky is ridiculous.  

My guess is the grill has had scratches in it that went through the protective enamel coating.  I had a weber that rusted out after several years (5 or 7 or so), but it got scratched alot.  My new Grand Cafe has no scratches and I expect no rust.  The doors are stainless steel and the only rust I see is on the inside from the bolts that hold the door on (which is odd that they wouldn't use stainless steel machine screws)

In some metal frames the rivets vibrate over time and this may rub off *cheap* protective coatings.  This is why, I believe, you usually see rust around rivets as opposed to just anywhere on the metal frame.  I hear some companies coat first, then make the rivet holes afterwards.  oops.

Last time I got on a boat the pier was made out of wood, stuck in water all the time, and yet this 30 year old (at least??) structure seemed stable to me! I don't see too many piers made of metal!

-Ed

[stuart]

I'm not sure what the issue will be, but it certainly can be hard to keep a 2x8 joist straight and lumber quaility in a retail yard is terrible.

The bigger the span of lumber the greater the chance of warping, bowing, crowning etc...  if you get the chance, take a look at 4x4 and 2x2 pressure treated wood at lengths 8 feet and under and compare their quality to long lengths of 2x8. Compare pressure treated lumber that is incised with lumber that is not incised. Also note what grade all the lumber is; there's a big difference between select structural and No. 2.

I bought 2x2 in 36 inch lengths for a deck rail and waited 3 weeks before I was able to put it up, 2/3's of all of the pieces were warped. Had a similar experience with a fence and 4x4 pressure treated, 5 foot lengths all warped before getting them up.

I also sold play sets and used premium grade pressure treated for those but dropped the line because of not being able to keep up with all of the replacement pieces on the sets.

So no, I personally don’t believe that it’s a matter of quality, thickness or length. My experience is that it is an inherent flaw in all pressure treated wood to warp if it is not braced and/or bracketed in several places.

[empolgation]

I bought 2x2 in 36 inch lengths for a deck rail and waited 3 weeks before I was able to put it up, 2/3's of all of the pieces were warped. Had a similar experience with a fence and 4x4 pressure treated, 5 foot lengths all warped before getting them up.

I also sold play sets and used premium grade pressure treated for those but dropped the line because of not being able to keep up with all of the replacement pieces on the sets.

So no, I personally don’t believe that it’s a matter of quality, thickness or length. My experience is that it is an inherent flaw in all pressure treated wood to warp if it is not braced and/or bracketed in several places.

I guess you could say it is an "inherent flaw" in all wood to warp if it's not braced and/or bracketed and most importantly not properly stored, especially if the wood wasn't dried properly.  Pressure treatment does require additional drying and storage consideration.

[stuart]

I guess you could say it is an "inherent flaw" in all wood to warp if it's not braced and/or bracketed and most importantly not properly stored, especially if the wood wasn't dried properly.  Pressure treatment does require additional drying and storage consideration.

Yes to some degree but I gotta tell you; I still sell play sets and we have very few problems with warping, wanna guess what where using now? Cedar! Oh and some metal also. BTW, I replaced all of the deck spindles and posts with cedar also at the advise of several deck and fence specialists!

[Tman122]

I use cedar for all the railing components, deck boards and rim joists, but cost for joists inhibits the use for the understructure. And the stair risers are made of pressure treated, ever price out a 2x12 cedar?

[Brewman]

Also, cedar doesn't have the same strength per dimention as fir.  A cedar 2x12 will not be approved to hold the same load as a fir one.
Brewman

[Tman122]

Yes brewman, but they work fine and are over rated for the use of steps, cedar I mean, and they look great compared to a treated. I liked the brown treated that used to be available, but had a hard time last deck aquiring it and was told it may not be available much more.

Back to this metal versus wood thing. If you think metal is superior to wood and I am not taking sides here, Take a 2x4 that is 3 feet long and a  22 ga. wall stud 3 feet long set the 2 side by side with one end on your step and the other on the ground and jump on them see which stays straight. As far as longevity I think it is a non issue they will both outlast the tub if cared for properly.

My preference would be wood because it is quieter, has a way higher insulating factor and is easier to work with.

The surface of a deck is an enviroment so much harsher than inside the cabinet of a hot tub, yet could you imagine using galvinized material as deck boards and what they would look like after being walked on scratched by rocks in your shoes have all kinds of stuff dropped on it and shovels scraped across them. Or even a snowblowers chains digging into them (I'll never do that again)

Now if we were talking a welded aluminum frame! Or a carbon fiber frame! Or recycled plastics! Or wait, way cool titanium!

[windsurfdog]

Some of the opinions in this thread are just too funny.  Tell ya what--I'll be glad to post pictures of my metal frame next summer--after the tub has been in service for a year on my p.t. deck 8 feet above grade.  I live with a view of the Gulf and have salt water canals on both the north and south sides of the house (tub is on the south side of the house.)  Then maybe we can put this nonsense to rest?
BTW, the last time my metal frame spoke to me, the voice was no louder than when my p.t. deck last whispered in my ear!

[UnderTheStars]

Well, in my opinion, no other hottub forum even comes close to having as much info on homebuilding, playsets, & barbeque grills.  Thanks guys!

That said, I'm looking for a new grill and thought powder coat would last longer than enamel.  Anybody know, does Webber use enamel or powder coat?  Does the powder coat really perform better over time given the extreme heat/cool cycle of a backyard grill?

I'm looking at a the basic Webber kettle and have been quoted $149.  That includes the basic kettle, grates, a starter bag of charcoal, but no cook tools.  Should I hold hold out for a tong/spatula set or is it pretty standard not to include those?
temporarily insane,
Stars

[Vinny]

Windsurfdog,

The idea you had - "Tell ya what--I'll be glad to post pictures of my metal frame next summer--after the tub has been in service for a year on my p.t. deck 8 feet above grade.  I live with a view of the Gulf and have salt water canals on both the north and south sides of the house (tub is on the south side of the house.)  Then maybe we can put this nonsense to rest? "  - is a great idea BUT unfortunately it wont work - People will argue what color you should use on the deck to match the tub!  

Vinny

[Tman122]

UTS....I love my Weber Performer, the best of both worlds gas and the real charcoal taste. Check it out. The kettle seems to be enamel but the balance is SS.

I'll post pictures of my wood framed tub also but it will be 3 years old soon, last time I looked it was as good as the day I bought it.

[windsurfdog]

I'll post pictures of my wood framed tub also but it will be 3 years old soon, last time I looked it was as good as the day I bought it.

Exactly, tman.  Let's team up on'em and put this ridiculous debate to rest.  BTW, how loud was your wood frame when it last spoke to you?

[keesterdog]

hey under the stars,
 i would hold out for a lid lifter and a set of steps for that kettle. but remember. you definitely don't want a wood frame on your grill.

[bethshar]

How many tubs are retired due to warped wood or rusting metal frames?  My guess would be that most tubs that are retired are due to pumps and heaters going bad or leaks at a  
point in the tubs life that it wouldn't be worth fixing.

The frame material would probably outlast other issues whether it be wood or metal.

[ebirrane]

I would agree, but for 1 thing: A frame that is not manufactured correctly *can* shorten the life of a tub.

Bare wood, like bare pine, *might* rot, especially if you have a leak that goes undetected for a significant amount of time. Some metal frames *might* rust based on the kind of metal used and the kind of coating used.  

Wood frames (and metal frames) must be structurally sound.  No 1x1 wood holding up the shell and all that water!  

There *are* valid structural questions to ask, but *both* can be done right by a *quality* manufacturer.

-Ed