Questions for Hot Spring Freshwater (salt) Owners

[bud16415]

There is a huge difference in treating after a heavy bather load the next morning and doing it immediately after usage. Having 8 hours or so for the sanitizer not keeping up makes the dosage required much higher to get it back in line.

One of the nice things about doing the dichlor/liquid bleach (Clorox) method is that you do it reactive to your usage. With heavy usage say 4 people in the tub for an hour I now have a feel for how much sanitizers to use. If I add dichlor I add about a tablespoon if the CYA is over 50 I add 1/3 cup of bleach. If the bather load was super high or I had a lot of people in it that didn’t shower first I might even double that always running the clean cycle. I put it in go in get dried off and changed and then the last step is when the clean cycle stops clean the tub. After a heavy use I will check the next morning and see what is left of the sanitizer I added and adjust.

If I was running my inline system or had a salt tub I would still have to add something for the imbalance based on load.

I really think the trick is getting it in as soon as you can after the usage and not letting stuff grow in there. Salt to chlorine generation is steady but doesn’t give you the punch when you need it most if it was set high enough for the peaks then it would be too high most of the time.       

[Johnrb3]

I have the freshwater salt system too and have been having issues with the chlorine readings. But, the store told me that I’m not going to see chlorine readings using the regular test strips that come with the hot tubs. That the freshwater salt uses a chlorine type that won’t register with the strips.  I need to follow up with them still to figure out how I’m supposed to test the chlorine then, but according to them you can’t with the strips.  So for now I’ve been going off that there is chlorine there even though I can’t tell.  The only way I get a chlorine level to show on the strips is if I’ve shocked it with chlorine powder.  (Didn’t know about the liquid bleach). Anyway I just thought I’d put that bit of information out into the universe.    Does that sound familiar to anyone else as to why the readings aren’t showing on the test strips?

[castletonia]

I’m curious what your dealer is talking about.  I can test my floor models with Freshwater test strips, Aquachek test strips, a Taylor test kit and my BioGuard spinlab.  If there is chlorine it will read.

[Johnrb3]

Castletonia, so even the chlorine generated by the salt system should show up as a reading on the test strips? 
I knew that sounded fishy.  I never have a chlorine reading and thought something was wrong with my brand new tub, but they said it was normal to not have a reading.

[castletonia]

Correct.  Chlorine is chlorine, regardless of how you create it.  It is possible that your output setting is doing just enough to keep the hot tub clean but not enough to generate a residual chlorine level.  The fact that you are using the silver ion means you can have a low chlorine level (0.5 - 1.0 ppm).  I would have your dealer check the phosphate levels.  If you have high phosphates they will consume the chlorine rapidly and may prevent you from getting a reading.

[d00nut]

Castletonia, so even the chlorine generated by the salt system should show up as a reading on the test strips? 
I knew that sounded fishy.  I never have a chlorine reading and thought something was wrong with my brand new tub, but they said it was normal to not have a reading.

If you have ozone with your Freshwater Salt System... you also won't have a chlorine residual.  That's how we sell most of ours

[Steph135]

After the boost cycle ends what is your chlorine reading at?  What does it start at?

I started the boost on Sunday morning, and it was at 2.  That afternoon around 3 pm I tested the chlorine levels again, and it was still at a 2. 

The next morning after using it through the night with guests I set it on a boost again, and added additional chlorine, and let the jets run for about a half an hour.  We didn't get cloudy water this time around.

I guess we need to get our water tested for phosphates. that seems to be the last missing question we should get answered.

[Hottubguy]

After the boost cycle ends what is your chlorine reading at?  What does it start at?

I started the boost on Sunday morning, and it was at 2.  That afternoon around 3 pm I tested the chlorine levels again, and it was still at a 2. 

The next morning after using it through the night with guests I set it on a boost again, and added additional chlorine, and let the jets run for about a half an hour.  We didn't get cloudy water this time around.

I guess we need to get our water tested for phosphates. that seems to be the last missing question we should get answered.

That would be my next stop. Sounds like you are doing everything properly

[BullFrogSpasMN]

After the boost cycle ends what is your chlorine reading at?  What does it start at?

I started the boost on Sunday morning, and it was at 2.  That afternoon around 3 pm I tested the chlorine levels again, and it was still at a 2. 

The next morning after using it through the night with guests I set it on a boost again, and added additional chlorine, and let the jets run for about a half an hour.  We didn't get cloudy water this time around.

I guess we need to get our water tested for phosphates. that seems to be the last missing question we should get answered.

proper Phosphate levels are crucial for smooth operation of the salt system, if your levels are sky high it will really effect how well the system works.  There are liquid phosphate removers or granular phosphate stabilizing products that pretty easy to use right after doing a fresh fill. Good Luck!

[Qrose]

I have an Aria with the freshwater Salt System. Two of us use it 5-6 days a week. I use about 1/4 tsp of granulated chlorine every 2 to 3 days and shock it once a week with non chlorine shock. I have the output set at 5 which works perfectly for us. I knew from the start that I would have to use chlorine but compared to a non salt tub it’s very minimal. I also have the silver ion cartridge in the filter compartment. I use the freshwater 5 way strips. Just make sure you’re reading the chlorine line and not the bromine line. Whoever said the chlorine won’t show on strips shouldn’t be selling hot tubs!!! When my grandkids come to visit next month I fully expect to use more chlorine.

[Steph135]

After the boost cycle ends what is your chlorine reading at?  What does it start at?

I started the boost on Sunday morning, and it was at 2.  That afternoon around 3 pm I tested the chlorine levels again, and it was still at a 2. 

The next morning after using it through the night with guests I set it on a boost again, and added additional chlorine, and let the jets run for about a half an hour.  We didn't get cloudy water this time around.


Got a phosphate test kit, and phosphates tested at about 1500 ppm. 

I guess we need to get our water tested for phosphates. that seems to be the last missing question we should get answered.

proper Phosphate levels are crucial for smooth operation of the salt system, if your levels are sky high it will really effect how well the system works.  There are liquid phosphate removers or granular phosphate stabilizing products that pretty easy to use right after doing a fresh fill. Good Luck!

[tower210]

I have a hot springs Vanguard purchased new in April with the freshwater system.

We used once a week (Sundays) for about 2-3 hours with my wife & 2 kids.  I shock after every use (and sometimes on the Wednesday if its not perfectly clear).  Rotate and clean the filters....  Balance PH

We haven't ever seen chlorine show up on the strips more that for a week.  Our AD has drained the tub; done some sort of special flush; and apparently changed all of the guts of the freshwater system electronics....  Still no Residual chlorine.  They've tested the water multiple times..  Hardness hangs right at 25PPM.  Salt is right in the middle of the range on the controller.  They replaced one of the cartridges and told us it had some kind of scale on it (but not why).

6 months in, I'm pretty disappointed with the salt system...  Don't want to have to run silver ion or some other mineral AND salt unless I have to (why did I buy salt; could have done this without it).....

My AD says they're waiting for HS to provide direction...

[castletonia]

Has your dealer ever tested for phosphates?  If the phosphates are high, above 500ppb, they are going to cause issues.  Also, what are you shocking with?  MPS, chlorine?  If chlorine, what kind?  Also, was the hot tub initially sanitized on startup with chlorine?

I probably have 50-60 customers with Freshwater Salt YTD and the amount that are experiencing issues are small.  The ones that are have been a combination of reasons (high phosphates, high cya, improper water chemistry).  I have had a few cartridges fail in the 3 month range, but I haven't had one actually not work at all and I have yet to have a bad power supply.

[earesearch]

Castletonia, so even the chlorine generated by the salt system should show up as a reading on the test strips? 
I knew that sounded fishy.  I never have a chlorine reading and thought something was wrong with my brand new tub, but they said it was normal to not have a reading.

If you have ozone with your Freshwater Salt System... you also won't have a chlorine residual.  That's how we sell most of ours

I have seen the same thing with an ozonator used in conjunction.  I think the 03 (active ozone) burns up the free chlorine ions and it basically makes the saltwater system ineffective.  I have had the system on my 2019 vangard (freshwater generator) and I keep an eye on it every few days.  I am very dissapointed in the documentation with this system.  Our system is used 2-3 times a week for 30 minutes or so.  If you have an ozonator I believe the 03 reacts with the free chlorine and you'll never see it register properly and you'll also burn up the salt.  I thought this might just be a fluke and within about a week the water went green with ozone only.  Had to dump the water and restart.  Don't use the MPS sanitizer as well; it will burn up the free chlorine as it's an oxidizer.

Here is how it's worked best for me thus far-
- Check the titanium cartridge for buildup every 2-3 weeks; if there is buildup use a paper towel to remove them completely.  It looks like a calcium/salt mixture on the edges of the plates.  The system will tell you to replace the cartridge every 3-4 months but it will work fine in my experience if you clean it.  I'd suspect the real lifetime is about 6 months with a low bather load if you keep the setting below 5 on the control panel.
- If you use the hot tub for over 30 minutes with more than 2 bathers, use the boost mode option after you're done.  If more than 2 bathers add 1/4 tsp of granulated chlorine when you're done.  Going into the hot tub in the buff will reduce the other garabge you'll have to deal with (e.g. fabric softener, etc from clothes).

You will need to re-check the hot tub if not being used about every week to maintain this.

It's amazing that in the year 2019 that hot tub maintenance is a joke.  You could pretty much get chlorine or bromine tablets which will dissapate the chlorine at a low level but will likely end up damaging the tub cover.

Overall the hot tub ownership experience is good in terms of dealing with sore backs from lots of computer work (programming) but for a busy family maintenance is really still a problem if you forget to go see how things are going every 4-7 days.

I'm actually looking to build a microcontroller based product to interact with the freshwater system over RS485 to detect bather load and regulate the chlorine level in a more linear manner instead of shocking the tub every other week.  At some point, the total dissolved solids become a problem and will continue to burn up free chlorine as the spent up chlorine ions and other body oils increasily burn up the chlorine as the water ages.  Looking to see if I can model this behavior and make a product to detect and automate loads. I'd personally love for owners of vacation homes to be able to leave the tub alone for 2-4 weeks and have the chlorine at least still .5 to 1ppm.   I am sure vacation home owners with hot tubs either have to hire the equivalent of a pool man to maintain this if they live far away.

[tower210]

I'll ask the question about if they have tested for phosphates? That wouldn't be part of my normal routine.

Shocking with Sodium Dichlor-S-tria Dihydrate.

First initial startup we would use the chlorine that came with the starter kit to get it going.

Appreciate the help.