How to Negotiate and Buy a Hot tub.

[HotTubMan]

Underthestars! Why bump? This got so off topic by page 3 and by page six was just a way for regulars to up their post count.

OOPS I guess thats what I just did

[UnderTheStars]

Good point HTman!  I guess I'm a rookie tubber AND a rookie forum poster.  Shoulda done it the cool way and given a link - just trying to help out a couple new shoppers (Lucy & Tupperware.)  

Seemed like the right thing to do since I invented Hottubs.     Uh, no wait, that was Al Gore and the internet.   .   .man, this product testing is going to my head -  

                            THERMOPAIN, THE OTHER KAN KOZIE

[ZzTop]

Bump!  For those of you in the shopping/negotiating stage

Thanks, UnderTheStars

I originally wrote this thread to help new buyers just after I had done extensive research, and due diligence before purchasing a Hot Tub.

Wow was there ever a lot to know about hot tubs.

If it had not been for this forum and others on the net I would never have been able to make an informed choice.

I was so impressed that I decided to share with other interested buyers, the knowledge I had gleaned from hours and hours and many months of research, mainly on the Web.

Thanks to Steve, Stuart, Chas, Spa Tech, Dr. Spa, Spatech TUO, Mendocino 101, SpaHappy, Brewman, Drifter, WmCall, Lori , HotTubMan, and many many others for their sincere and informed input.

They have made this site The best Spa information source on the Net.

I write from a purchasers point of view, I am not connected with the Spa Industry in any way, other than a consumer who  really enjoys our Spa.

Regards Zz

[Lori]

ZZ,

We were all becoming concerned about you not being around for a while!!!

Glad to see you are still hanging around!!!

[rick]

ZZtop, you're only informed from a biased slant here.  You chose to take that slant as you are probably a full foam owner too.  Yet you go to great lengths to talk down thermopane technology.  You must have owned them before to make such opinionated statements.  
Just wondering, what brands of spas have you owned over your life?  
I on the other hand, am a minority voice on this board.  That's ok, because in a way this has become a "semi-cause" for me as it irks the hell out of me, day after day, to see this bias run rampant on this board.  It only serves to disserve the spa buying public who come here.
All of the biased rant is heresay and untrue in my opinion.  
I too, owned a full foam spa, ignorant of it's technology until the great leak started.  I too, took it upon myself to research and find out more about what I was getting into before slapping down $8000 for a new tub.  
My conclusions differ from yours.  That's cool.  
A full foam tub works.  We know that.  The thermpane technology is newer and comes in a variety of forms.   In my research, I learned that my electric bill would not be higher by going with a thermopane.  I also learned that if/when my spa leaks, it will be much easier to fix than a full foam.  I learned that metal framing is available now to.  I know from experience, that a wood frame will not last when exposed to a leak over time.   So I knew what I wanted.  I found what I wanted from Coleman.  All you full foam forum members can lambast these technologies all you want.  That's your right.  But I will also take it upon myself to counterpoint your bias so that the spa shopping public does not get misled.  
Good day to you sir.

[Wisoki]

Rick you are absolutly correct except for one thing. The thermo pane style of insulating spas has been around longer than full foaming. Only when hotsprin spas came around and made their tubs out of a rather flimsy plastic with no fiberglass reinforcement, they needed to full foam to support the structure of the spa. When masco, an enormous company with a great advertizing propaganda budget, bought hotspring they converted this necessity into an advantage promoting its insulative values. Which it does have, but ultimatly it was orriginaly introduced as structural support. In my opinion full foam is a waste of expanding foam product. Build a strong structural shell, insulate the walls of the shell and cabinet. As much as the full foamers say it's no problem to fix  a leak in there, I say it SUCKS. Thermopane insulates just as well, if not better, and is more service friendly during warranty AND after for all those DIYers out there.

ZZtop, you're only informed from a biased slant here.  You chose to take that slant as you are probably a full foam owner too.  Yet you go to great lengths to talk down thermopane technology.  You must have owned them before to make such opinionated statements.  
Just wondering, what brands of spas have you owned over your life?  
I on the other hand, am a minority voice on this board.  That's ok, because in a way this has become a "semi-cause" for me as it irks the hell out of me, day after day, to see this bias run rampant on this board.  It only serves to disserve the spa buying public who come here.
All of the biased rant is heresay and untrue in my opinion.  
I too, owned a full foam spa, ignorant of it's technology until the great leak started.  I too, took it upon myself to research and find out more about what I was getting into before slapping down $8000 for a new tub.  
My conclusions differ from yours.  That's cool.  
A full foam tub works.  We know that.  The thermpane technology is newer and comes in a variety of forms.   In my research, I learned that my electric bill would not be higher by going with a thermopane.  I also learned that if/when my spa leaks, it will be much easier to fix than a full foam.  I learned that metal framing is available now to.  I know from experience, that a wood frame will not last when exposed to a leak over time.   So I knew what I wanted.  I found what I wanted from Coleman.  All you full foam forum members can lambast these technologies all you want.  That's your right.  But I will also take it upon myself to counterpoint your bias so that the spa shopping public does not get misled.  
Good day to you sir.

[rick]

My oh my.  That is some interesting news Frank.  I did know this.  It will be equally interesting to hear the deluge of rebuttal that is bound to be coming any minute now.  (pow wow pow wow!!) the sound of injuns circling the wagons.  

[HotTubMan]

I have sold both. I beleive in both methods. If you get a shopper like Rick, there is no question which is better. For anyone who has ever experienced a leak, TP is the way to go. Simple.

ZZ, good to see you are back. You will see that I have been trying to lobby for you to win an award for the post that has the most reads. 10 000 is not that far away. I must say I did feel slighted when I was ommitted from the thankyous. Maybe when you get your award I will be mentioned.

[ZzTop]

ZZ, good to see you are back. You will see that I have been trying to lobby for you to win an award for the post that has the most reads. 10 000 is not that far away. I must say I did feel slighted when I was ommitted from the thankyous. Maybe when you get your award I will be mentioned.

HotTubMan you receive honorable mention
Thanks for your support.
Zz

[KC-SWO]

As a relatively new member of this forum, I'd like to give
what I felt was the advice seen on this forum.

There are people that swear by full foam.
There are people that swear by thermopane.
Both have pros/cons.
My decision was not to care which I bought.
I wet-tested both, not that insulation matters when
wet-testing.  I did not find a TP tub that I liked.
So I have bought a FF.

Many people seem to like ozone, many don't.
I have seen no real data to prove either side.
My tub doesn't have ozone, again because the tub
that I liked when I wet-tested didn't have it standard.


Same with the 24 hour circ pump.


My main decision was to stick with the name brand tubs,
that have dealer representation in my area, that I liked
the best during the wet-test.


Everyone is biased in some way.
We all tend to support what has worked well for us in
the past.  (At least those that aren't trying to sell
a specific product.)
I hope that I become extremely biased towards Beachcomber.  Why?  Because I bought one, and if I am
biased towards them, that will mean I have had very
good luck and/or service, with a tub that I really enjoy.

[wmccall]

Underthestars! Why bump? This got so off topic by page 3 and by page six was just a way for regulars to up their post count.

OOPS I guess thats what I just did

What are you suggesting, that some of us live for post count?  When I get to 900, you can print the post, mail it to me, in a self addressed stamped return envelope, and I'll autograph it.

[wmccall]

KC,  great post,  I have to even use the words TP or FF in any post anymore.

[HotTubMan]

Wow Bill! I'll be coutning the posts! How much is a stamp from Canada to the US?

[tazman]

ZZtop, you're only informed from a biased slant here.  You chose to take that slant as you are probably a full foam owner too.  Yet you go to great lengths to talk down thermopane technology.  You must have owned them before to make such opinionated statements.  
Just wondering, what brands of spas have you owned over your life?  
I on the other hand, am a minority voice on this board.  That's ok, because in a way this has become a "semi-cause" for me as it irks the hell out of me, day after day, to see this bias run rampant on this board.  It only serves to disserve the spa buying public who come here.
All of the biased rant is heresay and untrue in my opinion.  
I too, owned a full foam spa, ignorant of it's technology until the great leak started.  I too, took it upon myself to research and find out more about what I was getting into before slapping down $8000 for a new tub.  
My conclusions differ from yours.  That's cool.  
A full foam tub works.  We know that.  The thermpane technology is newer and comes in a variety of forms.   In my research, I learned that my electric bill would not be higher by going with a thermopane.  I also learned that if/when my spa leaks, it will be much easier to fix than a full foam.  I learned that metal framing is available now to.  I know from experience, that a wood frame will not last when exposed to a leak over time.   So I knew what I wanted.  I found what I wanted from Coleman.  All you full foam forum members can lambast these technologies all you want.  That's your right.  But I will also take it upon myself to counterpoint your bias so that the spa shopping public does not get misled.  
Good day to you sir.

I sell both! Here is my conclusion;

Thermopane = easier selling story, installation of electrical and serviceability. Negatives are that there is a greater "heat creep" on hot days and I worry about the constant heat on components.

Full Foam = quieter, more consistent heat; seem to have less leaks so far (2 years on both)! Negatives, as long as I continue to have no leaks I will say none! Although I can't see where it will that much harder than partial foam for repair.

[rick]

you sell both what?  What specific brands?

If you try to tell me that you have a full foam spa that is quieter than my Coleman, I'll bet you, and you will lose.
I listened to all the big players,  all the full foam ones,  Hotspring, D1, Sundance, Master, Marquis, and none of them were quieter than the Coleman, on either the low pump setting or the high.  

I don't have heat creep issues either.  I live in warm and sunny Fresno, CA and keep the thermostat at 98 for the summer and it is 98 every time I get in.  

I also have been assured by my dealer, and by the company, that my 56frame pumps have no problem dealing with the warm environment.   Of course, only time will tell.   According to everybody here, my pumps will go bad before anybody else's as it is in a thermopane environment and they are used in the filtration cycle, unlike a 24/7 circ. pump.