How to Negotiate and Buy a Hot tub.

[ZzTop]

Julie you can buy 303 protectant at Zellers in Quebec.
See link:
http://www.303products.com/main.php?infopage=canadasearch  

This product has the best UV protection out there and does not seem to have any bad side effects.

[spahappy]

      I just have to jump in here. Before I start, it's great to hear from Superted and Rick! This board needs more Coleman Spa owners/dealers, ect. on line.
   I’ve been selling Coleman Spas since 1994 in North Dakota. Yes that is right above South Dakota, and we are not the end of the earth!! However on a clear day if you stand on you car you can see it from here. Sorry, a little N.D humor.
  Zz you are so right in your observation comparing our house insulation to the insulation in spas. We make our houses more efficient by putting insulation on our walls and attic. We install air tight windows and put high efficiency furnaces inside to heat our homes. This seals cold air out and warm air in… This is what Coleman’s Thermo Lock technology does. They start be spraying 2 to 4 inches of high density foam on the spa shell. The tubs have a solid ABS pan bottom with 1 ¼” polystyrene bead board over that. The beadboard has a lining of reflectex. Reflectex is a silver reflective foil that will reflect radiant heat from the spa’s plumbing and equipment back up onto the spa shell. The cabinets are maintenance free Duramax, which is mounted on ABS board for strength than attached to the 1 ¼” poly-beadboard and lined with the reflectex. Coleman recaptures all of the heat generated by the equipment because we have a sealed, insulated, heated, dead air space all the way around the shell of the tub. Just like the technology in a house we seal cold air out and warm air in.
   The whole hype on the board about needing full foam to support plumbing is not at all true. First of all if that were the case, why would Coleman have a 5 year plumbing warranty? They would go broke fixing all the leaks. Second, take a full foam tub like Sundance. (I’m not picking on Sundance I think they have a good product!) look at the space they have their equipment in. What you will see is plumbing coming from the foam and into the equipment this is totally not supported in that part of the spa. How does that work?
   The Thermo Lock also insulates the equipment noise. When we do tradeshows and fairs I always check out the competition, our spas are always quieter than full foam spa’s.
  My spa is outside on the northwest side of my house with nothing around it. The winters here are cold!!! And long, it snowed two nights ago May 25th. My spa runs me around 25.00 to 30.00 in the coldest winter months, and we use our spa all winter long.
 Here are some websites to check out on foam insulation.
http://www.eere.energy.gov/consumerinfo/refbriefs/ed3.html
http://www.buyersinspectionservice.com/faq-insul-allabout.html
                                       Spahappy  

[ZzTop]

     I just have to jump in here. Before I start, it's great to hear from Superted and Rick! This board needs more Coleman Spa owners/dealers, ect. on line.
    I’ve been selling Coleman Spas since 1994 in North Dakota. Yes that is right above South Dakota, and we are not the end of the earth!! However on a clear day if you stand on you car you can see it from here. Sorry, a little N.D humor.
   Zz you are so right in your observation comparing our house insulation to the insulation in spas. We make our houses more efficient by putting insulation on our walls and attic. We install air tight windows and put high efficiency furnaces inside to heat our homes. This seals cold air out and warm air in… This is what Coleman’s Thermo Lock technology does. They start be spraying 2 to 4 inches of high density foam on the spa shell. The tubs have a solid ABS pan bottom with 1 ¼” polystyrene bead board over that. The beadboard has a lining of reflectex. Reflectex is a silver reflective foil that will reflect radiant heat from the spa’s plumbing and equipment back up onto the spa shell. The cabinets are maintenance free Duramax, which is mounted on ABS board for strength than attached to the 1 ¼” poly-beadboard and lined with the reflectex. Coleman recaptures all of the heat generated by the equipment because we have a sealed, insulated, heated, dead air space all the way around the shell of the tub. Just like the technology in a house we seal cold air out and warm air in.
    The whole hype on the board about needing full foam to support plumbing is not at all true. First of all if that were the case, why would Coleman have a 5 year plumbing warranty? They would go broke fixing all the leaks. Second, take a full foam tub like Sundance. (I’m not picking on Sundance I think they have a good product!) look at the space they have their equipment in. What you will see is plumbing coming from the foam and into the equipment this is totally not supported in that part of the spa. How does that work?
    The Thermo Lock also insulates the equipment noise. When we do tradeshows and fairs I always check out the competition, our spas are always quieter than full foam spa’s.
   My spa is outside on the northwest side of my house with nothing around it. The winters here are cold!!! And long, it snowed two nights ago May 25th. My spa runs me around 25.00 to 30.00 in the coldest winter months, and we use our spa all winter long.
  Here are some websites to check out on foam insulation.
http://www.eere.energy.gov/consumerinfo/refbriefs/ed3.html
http://www.buyersinspectionservice.com/faq-insul-allabout.html
                                        Spahappy  

Great post Spahappy.

The thermolock - full foam debate rages on.

It certainly has to be said that both systems are offered in the Spa industry by many different  manufacturers.  One manufacture even offers a choice of both systems.

There are many people posting here that own one or the other insulation system and I have never read any complaints, just opinions.  Lots of opinions.

I have also read that Coleman's quality has really improved in the last couple years and they offer a full line of feature packed spas.  Some with really unique features like Model C480 witch includes an ice chest for your pop and beer.

The most important thing to remember in purchasing a Spa is Comfort.  How does one determine that?  - WET TEST.   If you really like it - then thats the tub for you..

Each year Manufactures raise the bar on quality, design, engineering and features.

North Dakota just has to be a great place to test the thermal abilities of a Hot Tub.

Regards, Zz

[rick]

Thanks for the informative post on Coleman design Spahappy.
One of the faults that people claim in themopane design is the fact that the pumps are operating in a hot environment and that overtime could cause stress to this equipment.  Could you please elaborate on this?  Is this a problem.  Do these pumps need some sort of venting?  

[Wisoki]

I've had my Jacuzzi® Laser Select, with thermo pane style insulation on my deck for 4 years now. My electric bills have increased a maximum of 19 bucks in the winter using it at least every other day. Again it is ON my deck. Cold air above, below and all around. I have had ZERO leaks, OMG imagine that, a thermo pane spa 4 years old that hasnt leaked because of pump and plumbing vibration!?! How caaaan it be? Additionally, the pumps have operated flawlessly. If the manufacturer who's spa you buy is built this way, you can be assured that they will take the time to use equipment that works in a warmer environment, and puts the plumbing together in such a way that you will not have excessive leaks. I wonder what Jacuzzi was thinking building their spas that way!!! People, sell you products on their merits, not on what could or might happen if they buy "that spa built THAT way  

[Mendocino101]

Additionally, the pumps have operated flawlessly. If the manufacturer who's spa you buy is built this way, you can be assured that they will take the time to use equipment that works in a warmer environment  

I think either design works well and has its merits...I have more of a question for those Manufactures that offer both as Wisoki said...to do it right they need be built and designed for one or the other...

[dazedandconfused]

Hey everyone!

While at the previous posts contain valuable info, can we adjust back to the topic at hand?  

I am trying to learn how to negotiate on my first purchase!  

[ZzTop]

When purchasing a Hot Tub Consider LED Spa lighting.

Have a look at the new LED lighting which is very energy efficient.  You can get a light show of changing colors which is very impressive at night.  Lighter tub colors can use fewer LED's than dark tubs.  That is as little as 7 for light colors and 22-24 for dark tubs.   This is something I did on our  dark Tub.

You can install this type of lighting yourself and you will find it is much cheaper than what most hot tub dealers are asking for it factory installed.   The Cost $99 - $150.00

Here are some links regarding LED lighting option.

http://www.spapartsdepot.com/cgi-bin/cshop/spaparts/color-glo.tam

http://www.hottubessentials.ca/mood_light_LED.asp

You must have a light switch on your tub that does not have a dimmer, just on and off.

Email an enquiry to the seller with the make, model and year of your Hot tub to make sure it is compatible before ordering.

Happy Tubbing,

Regards, Zz

[Brewman]

Nobody can tell you how to negotiate for the purchase of your spa, dazedandconfused.  It all comes down to the dealer and you.  If you don't like the price the dealer is offering, try making a counter offer, and go from there.  They may stick to their price because they are offering you their best price.  
Best thing to do is shop around, see what comparable spas are going for in your area, and not get too hung up on price.
If you make a reasonable (from the dealers perspective) offer it will be accepted.
There are way more important factors to consider when buying a spa.  Believe me, once you have your tub up and running, you QUICKLY forget about what you paid for it.  

[ZzTop]

Nobody can tell you how to negotiate for the purchase of your spa, dazedandconfused.  It all comes down to the dealer and you.  If you don't like the price the dealer is offering, try making a counter offer, and go from there.  They may stick to their price because they are offering you their best price.  
 Best thing to do is shop around, see what comparable spas are going for in your area, and not get too hung up on price.
 If you make a reasonable (from the dealers perspective) offer it will be accepted.
 There are way more important factors to consider when buying a spa.  Believe me, once you have your tub up and running, you QUICKLY forget about what you paid for it.  

A point well taken Brewman, I totally agree.

[ZzTop]

Our reason for buying a hot tub;

Our Beachcomber Hot Tub is a place away from, computers, television, politics, news, and all the other distractions in daily life.

For me it is a place to go to relax and recharge and get rid of the days stress.  I often just like to soak in the warm soothing water, no jets.  

Or if I have a sore back or aching feet I indulge in my jet therapy for twenty minutes and then go back to just hydrotherapy.  
 
The best time for me is very late at night just before bed.  Then I sleep like a baby.  
 
The only lights I have on is the LED multicoloured light show, it is like another world.  
 
Depending on my mood I will have a favourite CD playing.  
 
A truly great outdoor experience available all year round, rain, shine, sleet or snow, day or night it doesn't matter.  
 
When you have someone in the tub with you, you can have a one on one conversation without distractions.  A really great place to get to know your Wife, Friend, Lover. . .
 
I guess I should thank the Romans, or maybe the Chinese.  
 
A marriage of ancient tradition using today’s modern technologies.  
 
I have owned lots of toys, ie; boats, RV's etc, but this is the very best investment for pure relaxation and enjoyment.  Total privacy, and just ten feet from my house!
 
We only live once and I would not have wanted to miss this Experience.  
 
Simply the BEST!  
 
Regards,  John B.

[ZzTop]

A WARNING.

Watch out for all the flash and gimmicks used to sell hot tubs.

They have very little real intrinsic value compared to basic hydrotherapy, seating comfort, good engineering and long term quality and satisfaction.

Things I don't particulary like are waterfalls, stereos, misters, pillows, air blower pumps, sperm skimmers, overkill on the number of jets and pumps which add up to more costs of operation and maintenence and of course higher failure rates over the life expectancy of the Spa.

If you are looking for, "Look What I Own bragging rights "by all means get the whole nine yards.  You will surely pay the price in the end.

Well - thank you for letting me get that off my chest!  LOL

Regards, Zz.

[ZzTop]

The advantages of a 24/7 dedicated circulation pump.

These pumps are very energy efficient to run.  Consider a pump drawing 0.6 amps running 24 hours a day while filtering 42,000 gallons of water per day with a 30 second perge cycle (jet pumps on high speed).

A 24/7 circ pump provides even and continuous heating of the spa as the pump is continuously moving water past the heater which distributes hot water evenly to the tub.

Generally a jet pump will also be programmed to run for 30 seconds twice in a 24 hour period to purge water and mix the spa water to make sure there is no standing unfiltered water in the tub and break up surface tension.  This adds up to very good high volume, continuous filtration.

If you are using an ozinator, it will operate 24/7 along with the circ pump resulting in a continuous application of Ozone to the spa water.  This is a big advantage if you are using ozone.  Other programmed systems only allow the ozone generator to operate when the pumps are operating.

Savings.  A dedicated cirulation pump costs less to run than the more expensive jet pumps.  This also extends the jet pumps life expectancy.

Quieter operation.

[drb]

24 hour circulation pumps:  From what I can see, the big advantage to a continuous circulation pump is that you have 24 hour ozonation.  Ozone is a great sanitizer, but it has no residual effect (like chlorine, for example).  Once ozone hits the water, it's gone in a few seconds.

So, unless your ozonator runs 24 hours a day, you'll be maintaining higher levels of whatever residual-maintaining sanitizer you're using.  And it appears that the only practical way to run an ozonator is with a pump and a venturi eductor.

The downside of small circulating pumps appears to be that they clog up more easily, but that's anecdotal evidence.

Whether you circulate all your water in 2 hours and let it sit for 10 hours, or circulate all of it in 12 hours, would appear to make very little difference.

[ZzTop]

Yes drb I think the greatest advantage of a 24/7 circ pump is 24 hour Ozination.

I cannot see how a jet pump run two or four hours in a 24 hour period can give the same amount of ozination.