How to Negotiate and Buy a Hot tub.

[HotTubMan]

Rick;

I agree with you on the noise. I applaud you for selecting Coleman and defending it.

Maybe its just me, but it seems like you are taking things quite personally. Chill out man. Happy soaking!

HTMan

[rick]

sorry if it sounds personal.  I am only defending the truth as I see it.  I just can't stand silent when I hear untruths spewed out here right and left.
Am i biased to my spa?  You bet I am.  I am happy and proud of my purchase decision.  

[ebirrane]

I don't have heat creep issues either.  I live in warm and sunny Fresno, CA and keep the thermostat at 98 for the summer and it is 98 every time I get in.  

I live in Maryland, have a FF spa, and when it is hot out (and no-where near as hot as I am sure it gets in sunny Fresno) my 98-degree-set spa jumps up to 100 degrees of tub water temperature.  But that's an artifact of a better insulated tub.

Heater kicks on less, too.

-Ed

[rick]

I should have put a caveat in my claim on heat creeping. I have 3 modes of operation in my spa, Standard, Economy and Sleep.  In Standard mode the heater and low pump 1 can kick in at any given moment.  I have found on hot days that my temp can get a bit above the temp that is set.  I set my spa to Economy mode which means that the heater will only kick in during my filter cycles.  But I wonder even if the heater has turned on much at all over the summer.  Like your well insulated spa, mine too retains the heat that is produced very well.   I suspect that my heater doesn't get much use at all until I refill.  

[ebirrane]

I should have put a caveat in my claim on heat creeping. I have 3 modes of operation in my spa, Standard, Economy and Sleep.  In Standard mode the heater and low pump 1 can kick in at any given moment.  I have found on hot days that my temp can get a bit above the temp that is set.  I set my spa to Economy mode which means that the heater will only kick in during my filter cycles.  But I wonder even if the heater has turned on much at all over the summer.  Like your well insulated spa, mine too retains the heat that is produced very well.   I suspect that my heater doesn't get much use at all until I refill.  

Apologies.

I should have read your original response as "I don't have heat creep, unless not having it is bad".



-Ed

[rick]

"You mean so that potential guests have YOUR bias, instead of HIS bias.

If you honestly say that pressure treated wood will not last when exposed to water then you have just peed away your credibility.  I guess that wooden pier I was on last weekend didn't exist.  

You take a ridiculously small sample population (your previous tub) equate it to every other tub in the industry that shares similar methodology, then make wild claims to justify your own purchase. "


No, so that guests get to hear the other side of this one sided message board you lamebrain.  
And where in my previous posts did I state that pressure treated wood will not last when exposed to water?  I have no idea what kind of wood my old CalSpa had.  Never claimed it was pressure treated.  All that I claimed is that this wood that Cal Spa used got rotten from exposure to a leak.  Please don't exaggerate my statements, it makes you look the fool.
And I also never stated that my metal frame will outlast all of the other wooden frame tubs on the market.  I said that I decided that I wanted a metal frame in my new tub as opposed to getting another wooden tub and possibly having to deal with a rot problem again.  
Again, my old spa was a Cal Spa, it came with the house.  It served me well until the leak.  It lasted over 10 years.  I hope that my Coleman will last more than double that.  Cal Spa didn't villify me, it's the likes of you and your full foam cronies who constantly misstate the truth.  Your nickname rhymes with Brain, too bad you don't use yours that often.

[HotTubMan]

BUMP

I gotta see this one hit 10,000 reads.

[ebirrane]

"And where in my previous posts did I state that pressure treated wood will not last when exposed to water?  I have no idea what kind of wood my old CalSpa had.  Never claimed it was pressure treated.  All that I claimed is that this wood that Cal Spa used got rotten from exposure to a leak.  

Where?  Just look.  Here, I'll copy and paste it for you:

" I know from experience, that a wood frame will not last when exposed to a leak over time. "

Do you see Calspa in that quote above? I don't. I read it several times and didn't see any of the backpedalling you tried to append to your message since being called out on your nonsense.

Your nickname rhymes with Brain, too bad you don't use yours that often.

I haven't heard that one since grade school, Rick.  

Rick,  I removed the post and had hoped you wouldn't have read it as, while all true, it just encourages you.  

-Ed

[ebirrane]

" Cal Spa didn't villify me,

From everything I've read on this forum:

1) You base most of your FF opinions on your past owned tub.

2) Cal Spas are considered very poor quality tubs based on what I have readon on several message boards, including this one.

I'll start another thread called "poster credibility" on Monday because I think this baiting, while engaging, is off-topic to this thread.

What is probably important is for potential spa buyers to understand that:

1) Several posters on this board are dealers.
2) Several posters who aren't dealers have only owned their tubs for < 1 year.
3) Several posters are either trying to justify their purchases or have an AX TO GRIND (not thinking of anyone in particular or anything..)

And people who are green to this board should know that off the bat.

-Ed

[Mendocino101]

You know there are times when you know, you should tell yourself...to be quiet and there are time when you just don't listen.....but here goes my take on the TP vs. FF.....It seems pretty clear to me that both are very comparable in terms of energy costs...no big advantage to one over the other....it is also very clear that yes TP will be easier fix if you get a leak....It also seems that you are much more likely to get that leak with a TP....outside of Rick it seems most feel that FF are quieter...I would be hard pressed to understand how they could not be...time will tell if TP equipment holds up as well in its hotter environment....I know that a full foam spa I have lost 7 degrees in 4 days without any power to it....I do not know how the TP spa would do under the same circumstances....In the end I think both do fine....but I will say I find it very interesting that most of what are considered to be the larger manufactures Hot Springs....D-1.....Marquis....Sundance......are full foam...

[HotTubMan]

Colemans are amazingly quiet. A tub with a circ is quieter than a massage pump on low. The Coleman is much quieter than any tub I have encountered when the pumps are on high.

MAAX, the manufacturer of Coleman is one of the largest spa manufacturers. 3 plants in North America.

[tazman]

you sell both what?  What specific brands?

If you try to tell me that you have a full foam spa that is quieter than my Coleman, I'll bet you, and you will lose.
I listened to all the big players,  all the full foam ones,  Hotspring, D1, Sundance, Master, Marquis, and none of them were quieter than the Coleman, on either the low pump setting or the high.  

I don't have heat creep issues either.  I live in warm and sunny Fresno, CA and keep the thermostat at 98 for the summer and it is 98 every time I get in.  

I also have been assured by my dealer, and by the company, that my 56frame pumps have no problem dealing with the warm environment.   Of course, only time will tell.   According to everybody here, my pumps will go bad before anybody else's as it is in a thermopane environment and they are used in the filtration cycle, unlike a 24/7 circ. pump.  

I sell Marquis and MAXX (Elite and now Coleman) I don't understand the underlying hostility in the tone of your posts. Are you a dealer or just a customer that has had a good experience with their spa? I have both spas on the floor side by side and there is no doubt the FF is quieter! You can get angry about that all you want and challenge it all you want but I see it everyday! Both are great lines yet two uniquely different philosophies. I will tell you that I love the salability of the MAXX products with their waterfalls, stereos and other features prefer the Marquis for myself but . Both manufactures make a great product. I look at it as the difference between a Chevy/Ford or a Lexus. Some people prefer one some prefer the other. We point out the difference in philosophy in both products.

As far as “heat creep” goes, I can prove that right on the showroom floor also. If we do not open the vents on the side cabinet and have the spa set at 104 the spa will be at 105 or 106 on the showroom floor with the cover closed. If a customer understands how to adjust for this it can be a positive, it shows them that the heat is truly being recaptured under the cabinet.

The 24 hour circ pumps are a whole different issue, IMO they work fine but if you can accomplish the same thing without adding more components I feel your better off in the long run. Companies like D1 incorporate a circ pump into a sanitation and heating system that would not be as effective without the circ pump so it makes a lot of sense on their product. The best example of this I can give is that I have an “on demand” hot water system in my house – there is a circulation pump plumbed inline so that when I turn the faucet on I have instant hot water. I have replaced 2 of these pumps in the last 3 years and have had some other issues with it but love the fact that I don’t have to run my water for a few moments for it to get hot. In the end it costs more to have that system but the benefit of it outweighs the cost.

[bulmer4nc]

Wohoo!!!  I was the 10000th viewer...

Topic: How to Negotiate and Buy a Hot tub.  (Read 10000 times)

[UnderTheStars]

You beat me to it- way to go Bulmer. . .

    Ok, double or nothing, let's go for 20

[ZzTop]

I sell Marquis and MAXX (Elite and now Coleman) I don't understand the underlying hostility in the tone of your posts. Are you a dealer or just a customer that has had a good experience with their spa? I have both spas on the floor side by side and there is no doubt the FF is quieter! You can get angry about that all you want and challenge it all you want but I see it everyday! Both are great lines yet two uniquely different philosophies. I will tell you that I love the salability of the MAXX products with their waterfalls, stereos and other features prefer the Marquis for myself but . Both manufactures make a great product. I look at it as the difference between a Chevy/Ford or a Lexus. Some people prefer one some prefer the other. We point out the difference in philosophy in both products.

As far as “heat creep” goes, I can prove that right on the showroom floor also. If we do not open the vents on the side cabinet and have the spa set at 104 the spa will be at 105 or 106 on the showroom floor with the cover closed. If a customer understands how to adjust for this it can be a positive, it shows them that the heat is truly being recaptured under the cabinet.

The 24 hour circ pumps are a whole different issue, IMO they work fine but if you can accomplish the same thing without adding more components I feel your better off in the long run. Companies like D1 incorporate a circ pump into a sanitation and heating system that would not be as effective without the circ pump so it makes a lot of sense on their product. The best example of this I can give is that I have an “on demand” hot water system in my house – there is a circulation pump plumbed inline so that when I turn the faucet on I have instant hot water. I have replaced 2 of these pumps in the last 3 years and have had some other issues with it but love the fact that I don’t have to run my water for a few moments for it to get hot. In the end it costs more to have that system but the benefit of it outweighs the cost.

Excellent Post Tazman!

Zz