Running costs

[Holgmi585281]

So you will be pleased to know our Master Spa HL8 here in the Uk has been up and running nearly 3 weeks now. To give some real life running costs i metered the spa daily. We have it set to 39°C constantly or  102°F.

The ambient temperature outside is around 15°C or  59°F daytime nearer 10°C on an evening. We only use it mainly on an evening when its dark as the view is superb and its extra peaceful at that time of night. We use it for around 2hrs every night..
On the odd day we havent used it the spa uses 5to 6 kwh of electricity maintaining 39 degrees . On the days its in use it uses 10 to 12 kwh.
In monetary terms it uses £0.80 per day ticking over maintaining and £1.60 per day in full use. ($1 to $2 ) . The build quality i find to be excellent in every respect. On tickover it is barely noticable its hush quiet. On full its pretty quiet too. The insulated cover works superbly. The temperature barely alters at all covered. Im not sure how that compares to other peoples warmer climates but i am very happy with our choice. We have an excellent well respected dealer which i know is important. Here in the UK we dont hear of any problems with Master Spas like apparently you do in the USA. I have talked personally to many people who have them and they cannot speak highly enough of their ownership experiences. The forums over here are full of complaints of substandard Chinese made spas. We also have lots of online companies just selling cheap spas here (no showrooms). People are so focussed just on cost. You would be pushed to find any bad MasterSpa reviews here and that seems strange. I understand the tent sales problems you experience but in fairness Master Spa does tend to get slated on a regular basis and to a point where it becomes unbelievable. Jetting wise its not as powerful as some out there i know but it certainly has the power to give a fantastic massage. Chemical wise we are using bromine to sanitise. Bromine tablets in the inline filter. The chemical levels have been easy to maintain since the initial fill up where TA and PH were sky high on the first day . We are slightly limited here compared to the USA and Canada on the many manufacturers but we couldnt be happier with our little piece of opulence. Im sure it will give us great service for many years to come judging by the reputation they have here too. Whatever Hot tub you have enjoy. Happy hot tubbing 😁. Mike

[Tman122]

I would not be surprised if MS has paid people or put up fake posts like this to try and shed there terrible reputation.

Here in MN they are sold as a middle of the road option (they are middle of the road) and they seem to be very energy hungry in the winter.

Whats the serial number off your tub?

[swilly1000]

And I would be equally unsurprised if other manufacturers have done the same thing. It's just so easy to s**t on Master and so many people are eager to do it.

The OP has PM'ed me a few times and has posted pics of his tub.  I doubt he has been paid to post a fake review.  That's just a knee jerk, get-in-line-and-join-the-Masters-haters-group reaction.

Other critics have said that you have to meter the tub to get a true read.  The OP takes the time to do that and convert the number into dollars and then gets cast into the faker category.  Not at all surprised.

I put my tub into service on October 1st, 2018.  I took a far less rigorous approach and added up my hydro bills for the seven months from Nov/17-May/18 and compared them to the seven months Nov/18-May/19 and determined that I paid just over $50/mth more with the hot tub than without.  I understand that my method doesn't consider weather and other usage differences, but it's a ball park number that I expected to see.  Go ahead and criticize if you want, and further dismiss the OP's findings.  But my gut is telling me that Master does NOT go crazy on the hydro as so many people here would have you believe.  Furthermore, my tub has powerful jets......guess what?  More powerful jets=more hydro!!!

The hate-on for Master is not going to change.  At the end of the day it doesn't really matter.  If you're happy with your tub, then you're happy.  I am happy, so is the OP and so many people he has canvassed. 

Forums are about educating and sharing experiences.  I bet 95% of the haters are dealers who have an agenda that is not in sync with the (especially new buyer) end user's needs and wants.  It's too bad that people just can't past the tent-sale arguments and remain focused on badly misguiding the newbies. 

[Holgmi585281]

I would not be surprised if MS has paid people or put up fake posts like this to try and shed there terrible reputation.

Here in MN they are sold as a middle of the road option (they are middle of the road) and they seem to be very energy hungry in the winter.

Whats the serial number off your tub?

Geez well hello to you too and welcome to the Forum. 
Do you need a picture of the serial number too?
1906810

[silversun]

This review is suspicious for two reasons
1. the amount of posts from new forum members with over the top glowing reviews of master spa. It happens at a noticeably higher rate than any other hot tub manufacturer. 
2. the number of historical objections covered. The reviewer seems to hit on every major issue with master, from noise to build quality, to sales practices.

On a side note, you're using it for 2 hours each night?!! at 102 degrees!! WOW. I've never heard of that. how do you find the time?

[Holgmi585281]

This review is suspicious for two reasons
1. the amount of posts from new forum members with over the top glowing reviews of master spa. It happens at a noticeably higher rate than any other hot tub manufacturer. 
2. the number of historical objections covered. The reviewer seems to hit on every major issue with master, from noise to build quality, to sales practices.

On a side note, you're using it for 2 hours each night?!! at 102 degrees!! WOW. I've never heard of that. how do you find the time?

Hi Silversun and good evening .
First off its easy to use it for 2 hours or so on an evening here in the UK its quite cool here at the moment although the forecast for Friday to Sunday its hotting up to 34°C outside daytime . Yay at last 😁.
I might have hit on your so called historical objections maybe because i did lots of actual research . I read all the things that were posted on here and on consumer affairs reviews etc. I did extensive research in the UK and found no evidence here of what you are eluding to. I therefore decided i would post a real world review on my actual findings. If you would like to visit facebook on the Hot tub superstore in Blackpool UK you will see a few days ago my lengthy review about my Master Spa there too.
Quite simply i found the hot tub surpassed my expectations and im sure i will be looked after should i need assistance by the company Hot Tub Superstore. They are without doubt first class and very professional.
During our lengthy late evening soaks we occasionally depart the tub to enjoy a cigarette and a latte. I buy tbe cigarettes too myself 😁

[swilly1000]

This review is suspicious for two reasons
1. the amount of posts from new forum members with over the top glowing reviews of master spa. It happens at a noticeably higher rate than any other hot tub manufacturer. 
2. the number of historical objections covered. The reviewer seems to hit on every major issue with master, from noise to build quality, to sales practices.

On a side note, you're using it for 2 hours each night?!! at 102 degrees!! WOW. I've never heard of that. how do you find the time?

Maybe:

1.Master is actually a superior product that the end user likes!!!!!  Why haven't those same people posted bad comments later on when they found out just how terrible Master is???
2.He thoroughly researched his purchase decision and addressed all the negative comments about Master and determined that they simply aren't true*

Never going to stop the hating. Never going to stop those pissed off dealers from infecting the minds of new purchasers, who because of the shady nature of the market, are already in murky waters and especially in need of unbiased advice.

*And 95% of which are posted by dealers with a chip on their shoulder about "questionable sales practices" that the end user simply does NOT care about.  Beating my flipping head against a wall with the haters.  Always a rebuttal, always a "but this but that", always hating.  Always "middle of the road" always "inferior".

[silversun]

I'm not a dealer. I'm a consumer with first hand experience of master spas business practices. In my search I visited master along with many other dealers. I was unbiased and held no preconceptions about any hot tub. Master was one of the worst sales experience i've ever had. Not just in hot tubs, in anything.

And I definitely care if a dealer engages in shady business practices.
So, no. There's plenty of truth to the narrative that master engages in shady and deceptive business practices in the name of selling hot tubs.

I ended up buying a sundance and i've been very happy with the hot tub and the dealer. Glad you're happy with your purchase. Could it also be possible that Master owners have a chip on their shoulder from all the negative pub? From my perspective - someone who neither sells hot tubs nor purchased a master spa - it seems like yes.

but yeah. I'm sure Master have some happy customers too.

[swilly1000]

I'm not a dealer. I'm a consumer with first hand experience of master spas business practices. In my search I visited master along with many other dealers. I was unbiased and held no preconceptions about any hot tub. Master was one of the worst sales experience i've ever had. Not just in hot tubs, in anything.

And I definitely care if a dealer engages in shady business practices.
So, no. There's plenty of truth to the narrative that master engages in shady and deceptive business practices in the name of selling hot tubs.

I ended up buying a sundance and i've been very happy with the hot tub and the dealer. Glad you're happy with your purchase. Could it also be possible that Master owners have a chip on their shoulder from all the negative pub? From my perspective - someone who neither sells hot tubs nor purchased a master spa - it seems like yes.

but yeah. I'm sure Master have some happy customers too.

For the umpteenth time, I care about product quality not about how they penetrate their sales markets.  That's between them and their dealers.  I would much rather have a high performing tub than concern myself about their tent sales.  The support I've gotten from my dealer has been terrific.  The product is terrific.  Go ahead and not buy a good tub because your social conscience is trumping your tub experience.  I'll take those wicked jets thanks. 

The only chip I have on my shoulder is for the newbies who are getting diverted from a solid product by the bulls**t they are hearing here.  Case in point, this thread.  The OP does a rigorous analysis and concludes that the tub doesn't cost a lot to run.  But the OP gets dismissed a faker now.   And me, well my methods are not rigorous, so I must be wrong, or lying.

Good luck newbie.  If you're looking for me I'm getting in my high-performance tub for a soak.  Over and out. 

[Spatech_tuo]

I'm not a dealer. I'm a consumer with first hand experience of master spas business practices. In my search I visited master along with many other dealers. I was unbiased and held no preconceptions about any hot tub. Master was one of the worst sales experience i've ever had. Not just in hot tubs, in anything.

And I definitely care if a dealer engages in shady business practices.
So, no. There's plenty of truth to the narrative that master engages in shady and deceptive business practices in the name of selling hot tubs.

I ended up buying a sundance and i've been very happy with the hot tub and the dealer. Glad you're happy with your purchase. Could it also be possible that Master owners have a chip on their shoulder from all the negative pub? From my perspective - someone who neither sells hot tubs nor purchased a master spa - it seems like yes.

but yeah. I'm sure Master have some happy customers too.

For the umpteenth time, I care about product quality not about how they penetrate their sales markets.  That's between them and their dealers.  I would much rather have a high performing tub than concern myself about their tent sales.  The support I've gotten from my dealer has been terrific. The product is terrific.  Go ahead and not buy a good tub because your social conscience is trumping your tub experience.  I'll take those wicked jets thanks. 

The only chip I have on my shoulder is for the newbies who are getting diverted from a solid product by the bulls**t they are hearing here.  Case in point, this thread.  The OP does a rigorous analysis and concludes that the tub doesn't cost a lot to run.  But the OP gets dismissed a faker now.   And me, well my methods are not rigorous, so I must be wrong, or lying.

Good luck newbie.  If you're looking for me I'm getting in my high-performance tub for a soak.  Over and out.

That is a key statement and great to see because while many here don't have much regard for Master and their products we all agree how important it is to have a good dealer no matter the brand.

[Spatech_tuo]

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[Holgmi585281]

It might help if people were a little more friendly to the newbies. I mean i logged in as a guest ages ago to peruse the forum and others to learn about hot tubs from what i thought were people who knew a damn sight more than i did.
In comparison i joined a UK based forum with maybe 2700 members(thats a lot for the UK market lol) and they were welcoming. I posted the same picture that i posted on here in show us your hot tub, it was of the resting place well before delivery on my decking. On here 477 views and one comment😁. Now i did mention on that post that it would be a Master Spa and hopefully i wouldnt end up in the beating a dead horse section . Maybe that is it the fact i mentioned Master Spa that gets an instant lets not even like the post. If so thats crazy. The reaction my post got in the UK forum was the entire opposite.
Like i said friendly would be better. Do i deserve to be slated straight away as a faker? . I dont think thats fair, i work damn hard,have all my life. We earn good money, house is paid for so no mortgage. I have no kids so i can indulge in things i like like cars and holidays, hot tubs etc. I certainly do not need a freebie from Master Spas or anyone else for that matter.  This forum has some great informative posts and i have learnt a lot from it. I was brought up to be courteous and was told from a young age that manners go a long way in life. If everybody liked the same things life would be so so boring wouldnt it ?. Im not some keyboard warrior in any shape or form either. If my Master Spas hot tub wasnt up to scratch i would be the first to complain. Each to there own eh 😁 Mike

[silversun]

I'm not a dealer. I'm a consumer with first hand experience of master spas business practices. In my search I visited master along with many other dealers. I was unbiased and held no preconceptions about any hot tub. Master was one of the worst sales experience i've ever had. Not just in hot tubs, in anything.

And I definitely care if a dealer engages in shady business practices.
So, no. There's plenty of truth to the narrative that master engages in shady and deceptive business practices in the name of selling hot tubs.

I ended up buying a sundance and i've been very happy with the hot tub and the dealer. Glad you're happy with your purchase. Could it also be possible that Master owners have a chip on their shoulder from all the negative pub? From my perspective - someone who neither sells hot tubs nor purchased a master spa - it seems like yes.

but yeah. I'm sure Master have some happy customers too.

For the umpteenth time, I care about product quality not about how they penetrate their sales markets.  That's between them and their dealers.  I would much rather have a high performing tub than concern myself about their tent sales.  The support I've gotten from my dealer has been terrific.  The product is terrific.  Go ahead and not buy a good tub because your social conscience is trumping your tub experience.  I'll take those wicked jets thanks. 

The only chip I have on my shoulder is for the newbies who are getting diverted from a solid product by the bulls**t they are hearing here.  Case in point, this thread.  The OP does a rigorous analysis and concludes that the tub doesn't cost a lot to run.  But the OP gets dismissed a faker now.   And me, well my methods are not rigorous, so I must be wrong, or lying.

Good luck newbie.  If you're looking for me I'm getting in my high-performance tub for a soak.  Over and out.

I bought a GREAT product that I'm very happy with. It also came with the support of a great dealer. The two do not have to be mutually exclusive.

And sorry, no, my purchase decision was not based entirely on the reputability of the dealer. Dealer support was a factor in the decision making. But it didn't factor in nearly as much as the quality of Sundance, which I assessed to be better than master, and pretty much on par with with other brands.
And I assessed dealer sales tactics and the general impression I got as an indicator for how I would be supported after the sale. Because it absolutely matters. So don't tell me to overlook it, or that it shouldn't matter. I'm not telling you how to make your purchase decisions. I don't care.

Good for you that you're happy w/ your purchase. I don't fault you for buying a master. I'm just calling BS based on what I see and based on my own experience. And I don't see too many longtime forum members that are happy master spa owners. Maybe you'll buck the trend, who knows. Just don't pretend everyone who doesn't buy a master is settling for lesser quality to satisfy their moral conscience.

[d00nut]

Me personally, I don't have really anything against Master in terms of product quality.  In the past, their cabinets were questionable at best, but I know they have had a pretty big redesign here lately.  I'm happy that you've had a good experience.  I thought is that they have been a pretty good hot tub, perhaps even better than that... with marketing/sales practices that give the term "sale person" a really bad name.  Which is generally a bad thing in my eyes.

I really try to read between the lines.  I sell Hot Spring now, but I've dealt with Jacuzzi, MAAX, and Bullfrog in the past.  I even had a close family friend be a Master Spa rep for 5 years or so. 

I still think the best way to go about this business, specifically in the states, is to have a good support network.  Lying to get ahead, might work for a bit, but never long term.  Even great hot tubs need service, and tent events generally are sales only events. 

No one deserves to be a hot tub orphan.

To swilly's point, his values are what they are.  The fact of the matter is that newbies, by definition, are people who need help.  Tent events, regardless of brand, are generally an area where you will get the manufacturers spin, and very little assistance. 

If you come to my showroom, and I lie through my teeth about your hot tub, and you get it... guess what... you can come right back in here and talk to me about it.  You have recourse. 

Tent events will give you a pitch, close you hard, and in a lot of situations... leave you high and dry.

Most "newbies" don't want that. 

However... it's a good way to sell.  Just not the right way in my opinion.

[Tman122]

Over 30 years in this, over 4000 posts on this forum over the last 20 years. And I get a "welcome to the forum"

I never jumped on the Master hater train, I started it after working on a ton of them and watching guys like Swilly come and go in a year or so.