bromine ; I've been robbed !

[bachman]

I'm not sure I ever had the bromine level above 3 ppm except a few times as testing after a recent shock and seeing it above 10. Bather load typically 2-3 persons in spa suits 4 times a week.

The past 2 week or so, I've been letting the tub be for the most part, trying to keep from over-testing and the subsequent wonder or resisting minute changes or chemical adds. In that 2 weeks, we've used the tub less than we have since we started it up at Octobers end.
I checked the frog cartridge remembering I set the dial a bit lower last occasion and probably had a higher bromine reading.
Is it likely I just set the dial low and forgetting to move it back with in a few days has lost the level ?  Readings on drop test is zero. I got in the tub yesterday, dosed a 1/2 cap of MPS afterward and we had two in it last night and I tried a 1/2 of bleach. By now, I thought things would "wake up". 
Q;  Am I on the right track and just need more time and patience or shall I add a bit more ?

Reading from "Waterbear" the other day, I learned  MSP can lower ph and add TDS and where that's a concern, bleach is a better method, thus I tried with 4 oz bleach.
I'm not sure I'm ready to/need to smash up tabs and boost it that way but I know it's an option. Would like to have it resolved for Friday use. Water looks clear but had a musty odor last evening.

Last night, I set the floater in as well, orig owner had one for bromine and maybe this is why,, to boost it up faster if it gets low.
Bromine cartridge is set to 5 for now.

2005 Marquis Reward S.A. 400 gallon / 240v w spa frog mineral/bromine @102*f
 
 

[bachman]

I know as with sanitizer getting consumed, it's usually about bather load or some form of contaminant drawing additional resources so I decided the simplest answer might be the correct one. The multitude of interactions or possible variables with chemistry can get a bit cumbersome and I probably lost sight of the simple. It's just the same 2 or three of us in the tub and lately, use has dropped with temporary life busy-ness.

Getting the tub from the original owner, I think we started out  'mid or partial cycle' of spa frog mineral and bromine cartridges and it would have been smart to date code them accordingly. I've since replaced the mineral one with an extra we had but now that I think of it, I'm pretty certain the usable life of the bromine cartridge is likely diminished as it's the leftover we got with the tub. We also got a floater dispenser with his other supplies so I'm using that in the meantime and making slight adjustments at a time. I didn't really want to crush up any tablets since we are casual tubbers lately and not in it every day.
Unless some other strange condition persists that I learn of, I'll sign off without further updates and hope other's find such simple explanations to hot tub mysteries … lol.


 

   

[bud16415]

Having been a bromine user for the first year of our tub and had an inline frog delivery system and near the end a supplemental floater to go along I find your experience quite like mine.

First off I don’t think the minerals do much and those running down I personally don’t think have any effect on what you have been seeing.

When a frog cartridge starts out full I believe it dispenses more product than when it is getting close to being used up. If you change it monthly and you shake it and there is still product left that always seemed wasteful. If you try and use it up then you may not be getting the same dose you were. Because of all that I would go on and off a floater to try and help and that gets confusing fast. Combine that with pulling the cartridge and checking it and adjusting it all the time it was anything but set and forget.

Then there is how bromine works and returns to work after a shock treatment I was always seeing spikes and drop-offs.

For me bromine was always a roller coaster ride.

I figured if I had to fiddle with it daily why not just toss in a tablespoon of dichlor and be done. It is cheaper and for me keeps it more stable. I went a year mostly because  when I bought the tub I talked them into a years supply.       

[bachman]

Same boat, product to use up.
The floater and a container of leftover bromine tabs I have will suffice and I'm not entirely sure there is much beyond placebo or peace of mind with the "mineral water effect" from that other cartridge. Possibly the silky smooth, gentle water marketing not entirely different than I read per opinions on silky water features/options of other technology.

As for leftover solids in the cartridges, I'm certain I've read by manufacturer that leftovers are normal and not to be confused with useful life beyond the rated timeline. It does make sense to me that the cartridge dispersion could fade with time and hopefully the residual for the first half or two thirds of it's rated life is fairly consistent.
I say this because the first 2 months of our use was a lot of learning and experimenting but considering the life of the bromine cartridge was probably fading, I'm not the least disappointed in it. My recollection is the bromine level was pretty stable and easy to read / maintain in the very beginning. I think I just lost my bank without seeing it coming.

I do understand we all have slightly different experiences and variables thus it makes sense to default to the products or system that requires the least effort and affords some promise of the set and forget luxury. 

[bud16415]

I started adding pool salt about a year ago for my 400 gallons I add 7 pounds of salt when I change the water. It is dirt cheap and makes a noticeable improvement to the feel of the water. I know you cant compare minerals whatever they are with salt but 7 pounds of salt by volume would I guess be equal to 50 or more of those cartridges.

I never understood that they say there should be residual left in the bromine cartridge as when I use a floater it gets all used up. I might add more to the small chunks but in the end it all goes in the water. The rate is in no way liner with the cartridges. 

[bachman]

Yes, seems like bromine will melt away entirely and I realize I was only thinking of the mineral package when I read the mention of 'leftovers'.

This link I include does nothing to 'verify' or prove anything to me but it does sound slightly prestigious as written and the claims are pretty universal by many references I've looked up on mineral condiitoning or fighting bacteria. I suppose one could assume the claims might be true and relevent to some extent, but 30% ? , 60 or 80 % ?

On the other hand, I haven't found anything tub related to be cost prohibitive thus far so I may just play the sucker and use it as designed with the in line products. Refreshing this subject at least clairified one thing I was seeing as slightly contradictory;  bromine level recommendations of 1-3 or 2-6 ppm. I think 1-3 is probably what the mineral system claims is sufficient and thus the lower levels you might get by with according to their claims.
* Here below is Spa Frog telling us what the EPA allows them to say - 

https://www.kingtechnology.com/wp-content/uploads/EPA_Registered_Language_FROG.pdf
 

[bradleyabell]

I just use a common pool floater with 1" bromine tabs set to 3, a "Filter Frog" along with shocking with dichlor after each use.  This has worked great for me and maintains a constant level of bromine in the tub.

[bud16415]

I just use a common pool floater with 1" bromine tabs set to 3, a "Filter Frog" along with shocking with dichlor after each use.  This has worked great for me and maintains a constant level of bromine in the tub.

If you use your tub once a day and you add 1 tablespoon of dichlor to 300-400 gallons of water you are pretty much sanitizing with dichlor. No need for the floater at all IMO.

[bradleyabell]

I just use a common pool floater with 1" bromine tabs set to 3, a "Filter Frog" along with shocking with dichlor after each use.  This has worked great for me and maintains a constant level of bromine in the tub.

If you use your tub once a day and you add 1 tablespoon of dichlor to 300-400 gallons of water you are pretty much sanitizing with dichlor. No need for the floater at all IMO.

Wouldn't that change my tub over (after a water change+clean) to chlorine based system?  With the system I use now, the dichlor activates the bromine. 

Also, we have not been using our tub everyday due to the extreme cold temps+wind in Michigan.

[bud16415]

I just use a common pool floater with 1" bromine tabs set to 3, a "Filter Frog" along with shocking with dichlor after each use.  This has worked great for me and maintains a constant level of bromine in the tub.

If you use your tub once a day and you add 1 tablespoon of dichlor to 300-400 gallons of water you are pretty much sanitizing with dichlor. No need for the floater at all IMO.

Wouldn't that change my tub over (after a water change+clean) to chlorine based system?  With the system I use now, the dichlor activates the bromine. 

Also, we have not been using our tub everyday due to the extreme cold temps+wind in Michigan.

I guess it would be a chlorine tub once the bromine was out. My point was even if you skip some days the likelihood that almost all the sanitizer you are requiring is coming from the dichlor.

I just use dichlor and bleach method and often skip a day or two if the weather is really bad and we don’t get out there.

I’m sure the bromine in your case is adding some sanitizer also. There is nothing wrong with doing what you are doing that’s for sure.   

[bachman]

I just use a common pool floater with 1" bromine tabs set to 3, a "Filter Frog" along with shocking with dichlor after each use.  This has worked great for me and maintains a constant level of bromine in the tub.

Yeah, my experience as well for a few months starting out.
When I say I was "robbed", I likely let the cartridge die off without knowing it. Since they last 3 months or so, I'm sure ours was partially used up within the changing water cycle of the other owners.

 
Where abouts approx. in MI ?
Born, raised and grew up in the tri city area (Saginaw) and moved to CO in 93. Lots cold spells there in MI lately from what my family says … some snowy - icy roads too. 

[bradleyabell]

I just use a common pool floater with 1" bromine tabs set to 3, a "Filter Frog" along with shocking with dichlor after each use.  This has worked great for me and maintains a constant level of bromine in the tub.

Yeah, my experience as well for a few months starting out.
When I say I was "robbed", I likely let the cartridge die off without knowing it. Since they last 3 months or so, I'm sure ours was partially used up within the changing water cycle of the other owners.

 
Where abouts approx. in MI ?
Born, raised and grew up in the tri city area (Saginaw) and moved to CO in 93. Lots cold spells there in MI lately from what my family says … some snowy - icy roads too.

Kalamazoo area.  It's supposed to be around -30 F with wind chill by Wednesday

[bachman]

Kalamazoo area.  It's supposed to be around -30 F with wind chill by Wednesday

Ouch !  Feeling for my friends and family back there with the recent hits of snow, wind and low temps.

Used to travel by/through KZ a lot for years (84 - 92) working for GFS foodservice and many meetings in Grand Rapids or that area of the state.