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Author Topic: New Hot Tub Owner Slowly Figuring It Out?  (Read 5630 times)

vincecarter55

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New Hot Tub Owner Slowly Figuring It Out?
« on: December 30, 2018, 10:33:52 pm »
Hi everyone,

I've already absorbed quite a bit of knowledge from this forum so thank you for that. I have a few questions that are specific to my situation that I was hoping you could help me out with.

I currently have a 1500 L (400 gal for you non canucks) hot tub that is being kept at a temperature of 100 F that was here when I bought a house recently and changed the water right away (about a month ago). The previous owner left behind what he was using which was a trichlor tablets in a floating dispenser and said that's all he did was refill it and shock every once in a while so I just followed his instructions. I know... not good. But after I did a bit of reading, I realized I needed to make a change.

So I took a water test in to my local hardware store (I have a Taylor kit being shipped to me as we speak but this will have to do for now) and I had a pH of 6.8, alkalinity of 19ppm, free chlorine of 14.17 and total chlorine of 16.44 ppm. It also states that the "Stab" level is at 58 ppm (ideal range is stated as 30-60 ppm) so I assume this is the CYA?

After I found this information out, I took the floating dispenser out of the hot tub and bought some 'alk up' product (I know it's the same thing as baking soda) and have now gotten the alkalinity up to 94 ppm and have added a bit more alk up. I have tried opening the hot tub cover and getting the jets going to help burn off some of the chlorine but it's only down to 12.25 free chlorine and 12.25 total chlorine (is it a little weird that they are the same? I guess there's no 'used up' aka combined chlorine in the water?). "Stab" level is at 59 ppm now and pH went up to 8.1 so I have added some 'pH -' product but haven't gotten the water retested yet. I will do that tomorrow morning.

A few questions I have:
  • Would it be safe to use the hot tub right now given my current levels?
  • After doing a lot of research and scouring this website, I have decided that I would like to use a 3 step bromine system (with MPS for now while I'm figuring things out... I know bleach is preferred due to its price point but bleach % is not easy to figure out based on labels in Canada). I have purchased everything I need (sodium bromide, bromine tabs, MPS) to make the switch. Can I start the switch right now based on my current chlorine levels? In other words, can I start adding my sodium bromide to get my bromine reserve started, shock and add my bromine tabs to the floating dispenser without waiting for the chlorine levels to go down? If the chlorine levels do need to go down, do they need to go all the way down to 0?
  • As a follow up to the first two questions... If it is safe to go in the hot tub but need to wait for the chlorine levels to go down, then me going into the hot tub would help speed up the use of chlorine right?

Any other tips related to my situation are appreciated too! Thanks for the help.

Hot Tub Forum

New Hot Tub Owner Slowly Figuring It Out?
« on: December 30, 2018, 10:33:52 pm »

bud16415

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Re: New Hot Tub Owner Slowly Figuring It Out?
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2018, 10:01:46 am »
It’s kind of high still and I would wait until it’s down around 5ppm to get in, but I don’t think it would actually do you much harm unless you have a problem with chlorine. If you had it that level long term I think it could cause dry skin and such but it will come down quicker if you use it as it will have more to work on.

As to switching to bromine, I personally would switch to dichlor from the trichlor the old owner was using. Trichlor breaks down to fast in hot water and is the reason you are getting the high readings. Once you switch to bromine the tub will be a bromine tub until you completely drain it and flush it. You can go from chlorine to bromine but not the other way around as the bromine will convert any chlorine to bromine I am told.

 Dichlor only comes as a granular product and would need to be added daily, bromine you can get as a pill for your floater and in theory you don’t have to check and add it every day. My experience with bromine is I was fiddling with the adjustment every day anyway as it was hard to keep stable and I had an inline bromine dispenser and also tried a floater. There is a product called @ease that fits a frog floater or inline that is a chlorine and is slow breakdown that I have used. If I was going that route I would use that over bromine.

What I like about Dichlor is I add it after we go in at night and by the next night it has done its job and the level is down to like 1-2ppm my tub is the same size as yours and I use 1 tablespoon most of the time with 2 people in the tub for say an hour or less. We shower first and don’t use swimsuits that have been washed in soap. If we have guests I adjust the amount kind of by experience and then test the next morning if I’m not sure. I use dichlor until I reach 50ppm CYA / stabilizer. And then switch to Walmart cleaning bleach the cheap stuff and 1/3 cup = 1 tablespoon of dichlor roughly. Doing that the stabilizer stops climbing and makes the tub easier to keep in line. Little stabilizer helps a lot not so good. I use test strips made by Clorox and they measure all I need. There is also a phone app that lets you track how you are doing I used to use.

I would turn up your temp a little we live right up on Lake Erie and can see Canada on a clear night, and this time of year I like 103 she likes 102 and I really wish tubs adjusted half degrees. 100 will feel a little cold I think. The hotter water seems to burn off the chlorine a little faster as well.

Keep in mind I’m not a pro just a guy like you that 4 years ago had no idea what I was doing also. It gets a lot easier once you get going and I only test now about once a week as I know where its at just from experience. At first I was testing a couple times a day and going crazy.

Welcome to the forum lots of good advice here.       
 :)

wmccall

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Re: New Hot Tub Owner Slowly Figuring It Out?
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2018, 10:03:01 am »
Welcome my Canadian Friend!   Ontario I assume?   More of the chemical experts will be a long soon, but from my memory most people say TRI-chlor in a dispenser is a NO-NO for a hot tub.

Good luck.
Member since 2003.  Owner Dynasty Excalibur 2003-2012.   Sundance Majesta from 2012-current

vincecarter55

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Re: New Hot Tub Owner Slowly Figuring It Out?
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2019, 04:55:43 pm »
    It’s kind of high still and I would wait until it’s down around 5ppm to get in, but I don’t think it would actually do you much harm unless you have a problem with chlorine. If you had it that level long term I think it could cause dry skin and such but it will come down quicker if you use it as it will have more to work on.

    As to switching to bromine, I personally would switch to dichlor from the trichlor the old owner was using. Trichlor breaks down to fast in hot water and is the reason you are getting the high readings. Once you switch to bromine the tub will be a bromine tub until you completely drain it and flush it. You can go from chlorine to bromine but not the other way around as the bromine will convert any chlorine to bromine I am told.

     Dichlor only comes as a granular product and would need to be added daily, bromine you can get as a pill for your floater and in theory you don’t have to check and add it every day. My experience with bromine is I was fiddling with the adjustment every day anyway as it was hard to keep stable and I had an inline bromine dispenser and also tried a floater. There is a product called @ease that fits a frog floater or inline that is a chlorine and is slow breakdown that I have used. If I was going that route I would use that over bromine.

    What I like about Dichlor is I add it after we go in at night and by the next night it has done its job and the level is down to like 1-2ppm my tub is the same size as yours and I use 1 tablespoon most of the time with 2 people in the tub for say an hour or less. We shower first and don’t use swimsuits that have been washed in soap. If we have guests I adjust the amount kind of by experience and then test the next morning if I’m not sure. I use dichlor until I reach 50ppm CYA / stabilizer. And then switch to Walmart cleaning bleach the cheap stuff and 1/3 cup = 1 tablespoon of dichlor roughly. Doing that the stabilizer stops climbing and makes the tub easier to keep in line. Little stabilizer helps a lot not so good. I use test strips made by Clorox and they measure all I need. There is also a phone app that lets you track how you are doing I used to use.

    I would turn up your temp a little we live right up on Lake Erie and can see Canada on a clear night, and this time of year I like 103 she likes 102 and I really wish tubs adjusted half degrees. 100 will feel a little cold I think. The hotter water seems to burn off the chlorine a little faster as well.

    Keep in mind I’m not a pro just a guy like you that 4 years ago had no idea what I was doing also. It gets a lot easier once you get going and I only test now about once a week as I know where its at just from experience. At first I was testing a couple times a day and going crazy.

    Welcome to the forum lots of good advice here.       
     :)

    Thanks for the tips and words of encouragement! :) I've already committed to bromine this time around but will definitely keep everything you said in mind if I have difficulty with it.

    As an update... after I balanced the pH/alkalinity levels a bit and the chlorine level went down below 4 ppm, I added the sodium bromide, shocked it with MPS and then added the floating bromine tablet dispenser (just barely opened). 1 hour after I did this, I went to Home Hardware for another test and these are the numbers I got for a bromine spa:
    • pH = 8.5
    • alkalinity = 66 ppm
    • calcium hardness = 145 ppm
    • bromine = 27.36 ppm

    So I had a big jump in pH (up from 7.5 pH beforehand), alkalinity went down a little bit (from the 70 ppm beforehand) and bromine levels are very high. Is this normal right after starting a bromine spa?

    Today (2 days later), I got another test from Home Hardware after just letting the hot tub be and not adding anything to it:
    • pH = 8.4
    • alkalinity = 66 ppm
    • calcium hardness = 145 ppm
    • bromine = 14.7 ppm

    Should I continue to let the bromine levels drop before trying to correct alkalinity/pH? Also, is this tub currently fine to use given the current levels?

    Thanks again for the help!

    vincecarter55

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    Re: New Hot Tub Owner Slowly Figuring It Out?
    « Reply #4 on: January 02, 2019, 04:57:30 pm »
    Welcome my Canadian Friend!   Ontario I assume?   More of the chemical experts will be a long soon, but from my memory most people say TRI-chlor in a dispenser is a NO-NO for a hot tub.

    Good luck.

    Thanks for the welcome! And yep I'm from Hamilton.

    bud16415

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    Re: New Hot Tub Owner Slowly Figuring It Out?
    « Reply #5 on: January 02, 2019, 06:37:42 pm »
    I would probably go in at 15ppm if it was new to me and I really wanted to try it out.

    You are just across the pond from us we are in Erie. Thanks for not sending the snow down so far. 

    Sam

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    Re: New Hot Tub Owner Slowly Figuring It Out?
    « Reply #6 on: January 02, 2019, 07:00:56 pm »
    I would stop trying to adjust alk until bromine level comes down.  It's my understanding that high halogen levels can affect the accuracy of those tests.

    vincecarter55

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    Re: New Hot Tub Owner Slowly Figuring It Out?
    « Reply #7 on: January 02, 2019, 10:36:53 pm »
    I would stop trying to adjust alk until bromine level comes down.  It's my understanding that high halogen levels can affect the accuracy of those tests.

    Ok good to know. At what bromine level would you start trying to adjust alk/pH? Once it gets down to the ideal range (3-5 ppm)?

    Sam

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    Re: New Hot Tub Owner Slowly Figuring It Out?
    « Reply #8 on: January 03, 2019, 06:58:36 pm »
    I would guess it's fine at 10 but I don't have any data to back this up.  Sorry.

    bachman

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    Re: New Hot Tub Owner Slowly Figuring It Out?
    « Reply #9 on: January 04, 2019, 04:59:57 am »
    Vince,

    Just kind of skimming along here and I'm very new to all this as well. I've had my 400 gallon tub set up and going about 9 weeks and using bromine also as we took over the chems from the orig owner.
    As I had read, building up the bromine bank can take a bit but I have had a few ups and downs with the level (my own doing and experiementing with settngs), yet it seems pretty easy / non critical. Other reading; Min 2 ppm, recommended range of 3 to 5 and max of 10 ppm.
    As first set up, I wasn't sure why the other owner had a floater and the spa frog that is build in /in-line so I probably doused the tub with more tabs than needed but it work out fine as I tested and keept track of the level and did have the floater in there. The shock additive (as needed per bather load) "wakes it up" as well.

    One thing I found along my path of gaining info or making a file and printing up stuff I don't want to try committing to memory just yet is a write up of tips and simple realtionship of the chemistry by "Nitro" and another as ref by him - "Hottub Hillbilly" or something like that. Both seem to be vauled and respected resources and clarify some things while creating a tip list that really hones in on the basics. Keep an eye out for them on a search and I will add that Nitro does ref another link as for specifics on bromine whereas he covers chlorine. I think Hillbilly does the write up to zero in on bromine. It really filled a void for me as I'm always looking for the simple of how-to's or explanations and his list is good for the examples of-  if this, do that and making sure the one or two key levels are good before trying to hit the other targets.


    2005 Marquis Reward S.A. / 240v w spa frog mineral/bromine @102*f

    Sam

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    Re: New Hot Tub Owner Slowly Figuring It Out?
    « Reply #10 on: January 04, 2019, 01:09:30 pm »
    Yeah, nitro has some fantastic posts that all newbies should read.  Someone should make them stickied.

    vincecarter55

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    Re: New Hot Tub Owner Slowly Figuring It Out?
    « Reply #11 on: January 04, 2019, 01:43:26 pm »
    Vince,

    Just kind of skimming along here and I'm very new to all this as well. I've had my 400 gallon tub set up and going about 9 weeks and using bromine also as we took over the chems from the orig owner.
    As I had read, building up the bromine bank can take a bit but I have had a few ups and downs with the level (my own doing and experiementing with settngs), yet it seems pretty easy / non critical. Other reading; Min 2 ppm, recommended range of 3 to 5 and max of 10 ppm.
    As first set up, I wasn't sure why the other owner had a floater and the spa frog that is build in /in-line so I probably doused the tub with more tabs than needed but it work out fine as I tested and keept track of the level and did have the floater in there. The shock additive (as needed per bather load) "wakes it up" as well.

    One thing I found along my path of gaining info or making a file and printing up stuff I don't want to try committing to memory just yet is a write up of tips and simple realtionship of the chemistry by "Nitro" and another as ref by him - "Hottub Hillbilly" or something like that. Both seem to be vauled and respected resources and clarify some things while creating a tip list that really hones in on the basics. Keep an eye out for them on a search and I will add that Nitro does ref another link as for specifics on bromine whereas he covers chlorine. I think Hillbilly does the write up to zero in on bromine. It really filled a void for me as I'm always looking for the simple of how-to's or explanations and his list is good for the examples of-  if this, do that and making sure the one or two key levels are good before trying to hit the other targets.


    2005 Marquis Reward S.A. / 240v w spa frog mineral/bromine @102*f

    Awesome. Thanks for the tips. I've been trying to absorb as much knowledge as I can from this forum but I've barely scratched the surface.

    bachman

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    Re: New Hot Tub Owner Slowly Figuring It Out?
    « Reply #12 on: January 05, 2019, 02:38:10 am »
    Here is a link to pool spa fourm below and the related info (Nitro's write up) I copied to keep around for ref.
    Also note, within the text is the link related to hillbilly and his write up on bromine.  8)

    https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/13634-nitros-approach-to-water-maintaince/&tab=comments#comment-64510

    I've perused troublefreepool and used the pool math calulator that helped with dosage info as I'm still learning and wanting back up confirmation on what I THINK I know.  :-[

    « Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 02:44:48 am by bachman »

    hottubdan

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    Re: New Hot Tub Owner Slowly Figuring It Out?
    « Reply #13 on: January 05, 2019, 11:37:37 am »
    Most likely your latest bromine levels are not accurate. You/they are testing for halogen levels and having to interpret.  You have not used up your chlorine yet.  Hydrogen peroxide will bring chlorine level down.
    Award winning Hot Spring dealer for a gazillion years.

    bachman

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    Re: New Hot Tub Owner Slowly Figuring It Out?
    « Reply #14 on: January 06, 2019, 01:48:41 am »
    I'll add two more things here that might be helpful, both from troublefreepool topics.

    This below touches on bromine testing in an alternate way that might be helpful or as a double check method -
    "One way to check is to shock with MPS (NOT chlorine) then test for FC with DPD and multiply the results by 2 to get bromine levels.
     If your bromine is at shock level ( above 10 ppm) then you have enough of a bromide reserve in the water. IF the bromine level doesn't rise much then you don't have enough of a bromide reserve."


    Next is a link to a 'sticky' on a bromine spa written by waterbear who is also a trusted source from what I read.

    https://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/84-How-do-I-use-Bromine-in-my-spa-(or-pool)

    Hot Tub Forum

    Re: New Hot Tub Owner Slowly Figuring It Out?
    « Reply #14 on: January 06, 2019, 01:48:41 am »

     

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