First Time Purchaser Help

[aug0211]

I think this is the crux of the discussion.

You’re selling me something. I’m not selling you anything. You need to see it from my POV. You’re fighting for my hard earned money, not the other way around.

The customer really doesn’t care if the dealer had a rough night last night, got burned by another customer yesterday, or didn’t get his morning coffee

...

You are in sales. Your job is to make every customer feel like your only customer. Stop projecting your problems with other customers into us.

This is not a volume sales commodity industry. You’re in high-end luxury sales. Service and customer experience matter. What happened to you a month ago, or last week, or even 2 hours ago with another customer is 100% irrelevant to me when I walk through your door.

Bolded above - side note: these are literally example opportunities for a dealer to capitalize on with a customer. You SHOULD care if I had a rough night, a bad experience with another dealer, or didn’t get my morning coffee.

Play up hydrotherapy to help relieve tension from my stress from last night. “Wouldn’t this be a great tool to have available to you every day going forward, any time you have a stressful night?Where do you carry your stress? Here’s my favorite seat in this tub for stress in that area.”

Listen to what I didn’t like about the other dealer. Play up the opposite, as a strength of yours. “I completely understand where you’re coming from. I see it differently from that dealer, which is why we always _______.”

One dealer I’ve been in  has a Keurig machine with k-cups. So does our BMW dealer. If you find out that I’m dragging because I didn’t get my morning coffee - perfect! “Can I get you a cup now? I know how my days go when I don’t get that morning coffee - here are a few k-cup options I have available. They’re here for you to you any time you’re in, whether you’re shopping for a tub or if you’re in totall chemicals. Feel free to help yourself, or let me know what you’d liked and I’m happy to take care of it for you.”

[castletonia]

I don't disagree with your point of view, its valid.  All I'm trying to say is that if a dealer has the policy in place for a refundable deposit, they probably have their reasons.  If they present it in a professional, respectful manner, then I don't see it as an issue.  Like I said before, everything is negotiable and there has to be compromise regarding this. 

If the dealer is a tool though, its probably in everyone's best interest to move on to the next guy.

But let me ask you this, because I'm honestly curious on the response.  Is that dealer asking for a refundable deposit any different than say a trampoline park making you sign a waiver of liability?  The both exist for a reason.

[Spatech_tuo]

I don't disagree with your point of view, its valid.  All I'm trying to say is that if a dealer has the policy in place for a refundable deposit, they probably have their reasons.  If they present it in a professional, respectful manner, then I don't see it as an issue.  Like I said before, everything is negotiable and there has to be compromise regarding this. 

If the dealer is a tool though, its probably in everyone's best interest to move on to the next guy.

But let me ask you this, because I'm honestly curious on the response.  Is that dealer asking for a refundable deposit any different than say a trampoline park making you sign a waiver of liability?  The both exist for a reason.

If the dealer was asking for a down payment that was not refundable I'm sure we would all consider that over the top and not the way to run a business.

If the dealer asks for a fully refundable deposit (on a spa that has to be specifically set up to test) where all you have to do is show up and take the wet test that you asked for then that's where many pros here understand that type of policy.

[aug0211]

I don't disagree with your point of view, its valid.  All I'm trying to say is that if a dealer has the policy in place for a refundable deposit, they probably have their reasons.  If they present it in a professional, respectful manner, then I don't see it as an issue.  Like I said before, everything is negotiable and there has to be compromise regarding this. 

If the dealer is a tool though, its probably in everyone's best interest to move on to the next guy.

But let me ask you this, because I'm honestly curious on the response.  Is that dealer asking for a refundable deposit any different than say a trampoline park making you sign a waiver of liability?  The both exist for a reason.

Yes, they’re different. One asks me to release them of liability. The other asks for financial collateral.

If the hot tub dealer wants me to sign a waiver releasing them from responsibility for any illness, injury, or other harm caused from the wet test, no problem. That would be the appropriate comparison to the trampoline park waiver.

If a trampoline park asked for a refundable $300 deposit to use the trampolines I’d look at them like they’re crazy. So, you’re right - great point A $300 refundable deposit is a bizarre request both for a trampoline park, and for a hot tub wet test.

[bachman]

-
Sharing customer experiences or offering input can be helpful and I'm certain many business of all sorts cherish the gems of information out there if it's new, unique or stands out in some way. I'd be guessing but in the hot tub biz, the established dealers have been around or 'in the family' a long time and have had years of learning the ropes, thousands of customer opportunities and experience's, made grandiose errors in judgement, had smashing successes and have weeded out a few Turd employees (or customers)  over the years.
When the unpleasant experiences, bad behavior or crappy policies and customer treatment tilt their scale, they likely do see it and respond accordingly or --  suffer the consequence's.

With some industry insights and responses to customer concerns or complaints here or on other forums,  'we' get the other side of it or at least they can explain their rationale of why and how they do things. Because of this, I don't see many of those responses as projecting customer problems but more of an "Asked and answered" format. Sometimes there is a good question met with an equally good answer , don't take it personally and Yes, We all vote with our wallet. 
If I were in the business, I'm not sure exactly how I'd handle the "Be Backs" involving a special appointment and some extra leg work or time involved in set up. I'd probably tell them to leave their kids cell phone … lol-  That'll DO IT !!  BTW, ask anyone in the car biz what a "be back" is and you'll either get a good smile and laugh returned or an angry scrunched up face - LOL . A hand full of be-backs would have made a banner year in sales or income.

I don't think your opinion is isolated, but if not over-represented, this point you take issue with will melt away soon or be few and far between. Nobody wants to drive away customers and if the numbers prove to be important, business practices and policy has a way of self-correction.
As to this;
"What happened to you a month ago, or last week, or even 2 hours ago with another customer is 100% irrelevant to me when I walk through your door."
I see it this way; The expertise in dealing with customers, developing, learning and adapting business strategy and policy is every bit relevant. It's already happened before you walked in the door. I do get your meaning if it's a jaded attitude toward people but 'policy' doesn't strike me as attitude.

Old and grouchy-
I'm not altogether happy with a dealer I got my last car at. They had what I wanted and few others could get it. My purchases for the past 6 cars or so have been with a different dealer. ,
It's a minor glitch but I'm old and grouchy so I'll ask if I can get the car done (Lube oil filter change) while I wait since my other dealer does that. With the newer car, they want it for the day or most of the day. Not sure what they will say about policy or whatever but I'll ask that I get in a out some morning at some future appt time. If they can't or won't comply, I'll let them know the service side of the business goes away and I'll go to my other dealer who meets my concerns and schedule. Dealers, stores, businesses want to know how they can earn/keep your business or what sets them apart from the others. They'll get a clear answer.
At xyz dealership, I'm in the door at 7am and out in :45 min to an hour. I suppose a free loaner would work though.  I didn't buy that car to be without it an entire day just to convenience the dealer LOF schedule when  other dealers set appointments and get you in and out within reasonable time frames.
Funny thing is; When I asked price, I told them they had one shot to steal business from the other place and they got that right.

[Hottubguy]

I don't disagree with your point of view, its valid.  All I'm trying to say is that if a dealer has the policy in place for a refundable deposit, they probably have their reasons.  If they present it in a professional, respectful manner, then I don't see it as an issue.  Like I said before, everything is negotiable and there has to be compromise regarding this. 

If the dealer is a tool though, its probably in everyone's best interest to move on to the next guy.

But let me ask you this, because I'm honestly curious on the response.  Is that dealer asking for a refundable deposit any different than say a trampoline park making you sign a waiver of liability?  The both exist for a reason.

Yes, they’re different. One asks me to release them of liability. The other asks for financial collateral.

If the hot tub dealer wants me to sign a waiver releasing them from responsibility for any illness, injury, or other harm caused from the wet test, no problem. That would be the appropriate comparison to the trampoline park waiver.

If a trampoline park asked for a refundable $300 deposit to use the trampolines I’d look at them like they’re crazy. So, you’re right - great point A $300 refundable deposit is a bizarre request both for a trampoline park, and for a hot tub wet test.

So I will start by again saying I don’t ask for deposits for wet testing. I’ve been stood up enough times where it’s Aggravating but it is what it is.

Do you travel much?  Do you get upset when a hotel asks for a deposit on the room you are renting that’s refundable upon exit?  They are protecting there property and in the other case they are protecting against there time being wasted.

[aug0211]

I don't disagree with your point of view, its valid.  All I'm trying to say is that if a dealer has the policy in place for a refundable deposit, they probably have their reasons.  If they present it in a professional, respectful manner, then I don't see it as an issue.  Like I said before, everything is negotiable and there has to be compromise regarding this. 

If the dealer is a tool though, its probably in everyone's best interest to move on to the next guy.

But let me ask you this, because I'm honestly curious on the response.  Is that dealer asking for a refundable deposit any different than say a trampoline park making you sign a waiver of liability?  The both exist for a reason.

Yes, they’re different. One asks me to release them of liability. The other asks for financial collateral.

If the hot tub dealer wants me to sign a waiver releasing them from responsibility for any illness, injury, or other harm caused from the wet test, no problem. That would be the appropriate comparison to the trampoline park waiver.

If a trampoline park asked for a refundable $300 deposit to use the trampolines I’d look at them like they’re crazy. So, you’re right - great point A $300 refundable deposit is a bizarre request both for a trampoline park, and for a hot tub wet test.

So I will start by again saying I don’t ask for deposits for wet testing. I’ve been stood up enough times where it’s Aggravating but it is what it is.

Do you travel much?  Do you get upset when a hotel asks for a deposit on the room you are renting that’s refundable upon exit?  They are protecting there property and in the other case they are protecting against there time being wasted.

Yes, hotels put a hold on your card. First, to make sure your card is good, and also to protect against theft (TVs, towels, pillows, fridges) and/or damage to their goods (carpets, lights, walls).

If I damage your tub in the 30 minutes I’m in it with you in the shop there, by all means, hold me accountable.

If you spot me hauling the tub out strapped to my back, I suggest you let me have the thing

We could go all day searching for analogies that make it ok. I think my point was delivered and received as much as it will be. I posted consumer feedback, and was surprised to see how many other consumers chimed in. Looks like multiple dealers are losing sales because of this tactic. I do understand why some dealers do it. It’s ultimately up to the dealer. If you want the pop-up tent wacky waving inflatable arm tube man vibe, take a deposit. If you’re going for the classier approach, skip this tactic and focus on service How many sales have you lost from being inconvenienced and even stood up? How many sales have you lost from people being turned off by this tactic?

Also, I have to admit I sound like a jerk there - lol. Sorry about that, truly not trying to be a jerk. You guys obviously do this for a reason. I was somewhat surprised to see it and definitely turned off as a buyer.

[Hottubguy]

So then in a hot tub dealers case the deposit is for lost time. Time=money. I’ve been stood up opening my store when it’s off hours. Don’t you think I would rather be spending my time with my family or actually enjoying a day off. Just trying to give you a business owners perspective. Again I don’t ask for a deposit. I would rather just take the chance that they will honor there word. I can also understand the other side of the coin though especially if a dealer has been stood up enough.

[aug0211]

So then in a hot tub dealers case the deposit is for lost time. Time=money. I’ve been stood up opening my store when it’s off hours. Don’t you think I would rather be spending my time with my family or actually enjoying a day off. Just trying to give you a business owners perspective. Again I don’t ask for a deposit. I would rather just take the chance that they will honor there word. I can also understand the other side of the coin though especially if a dealer has been stood up enough.

By all means, if you are working off hours, charge the deposit. I’d just say “I understand, and private hours are not worth that to me - let’s find a time during your regular hours.” Or, if I cared that much, I’d pay for the private hours. That sounds reasonable to me.

Otherwise, it seems like you’d be asking us to pay for you to do what we (correctly or incorrectly) perceive to be part of your normal job duties. That is, setting up your showroom products to be demoed by a potential customer.

[Hottubguy]

But technically you aren’t paying for anything. REFUNDABLE deposit is what was asked for. I’m done with this thread. I don’t charge for it. Never really crossed my mind to do it but I get why some might. Typically dealers set up there stores in a way that there is a method behind what they are doing. That being said I had a couple call me last Friday asking if they could come in on Saturday to try a tub out. Worked until about 10 at night with a couple guys to make it happen. They showed and bought. If they didn’t show I would have been aggravated paying a couple guys overtime on a Friday night.

[d00nut]

This thread has spun out of control.  It's a good eye opener I suppose.

I'm nothing if not negotiable and teachable.

For the record, we've had this policy in place for many, many years.  We've made plenty of exceptions for people who didn't like it.  I would make the case that I have never, ever had anyone think the policy was foolish and cost me business.  It's also not like we present it in a hostile way.  I just politely tell them what we require, and we will set up anything they want. 

No issues especially in this recent year (my memory can't go back ridiculously far) have remotely popped up.

I'll continue to watch it, but it hasn't been on my radar as a serious issue until now... and we get at least 4-5 test soakers a week... maybe more.  However, the vast majority are okay with trying out what I have wet already.  Like my Envoy NXT or Grandee NXT

[aug0211]

Thanks everyone - moving back toward the tub discussion (and away from wet test policies), we have a wet test this AM for the Kingston.

The Aspen is also on the floor but it’s unclear as to whether that will be filled or not. And to be fair, we’d prpbably try the Claremont over the Aspen due to the nicer cabinet and the “sun deck” or whatever that part is called.

Fingers crossed for the Kingston. On paper, it’s currently our top pick.

Will check back in to post our findings later on.

PS - really impressed that everyone took what was a controversial discussion and handled it like adults. I’m a member of some other forums focusing on completely different topics and discussions like the above can commonly go south and get personal. Cool to see that people here are mature enough to agree to disagree.

[swilly1000]

Am I taking your response out of context or are you saying I should really get over it and it’s no big deal that I went above and beyond for a potential customer and got stood up?  If so, tell me this; put yourself in my shoes or any other dealer, how many times can you be stood up before you implement a refundable deposit policy or some kind of reassurance?

Yep, pretty much.  Your business though, so your call.

FYI  I'm self employed too and I know about being stood up so not without experience on that.

[Sam]

PS - really impressed that everyone took what was a controversial discussion and handled it like adults. I’m a member of some other forums focusing on completely different topics and discussions like the above can commonly go south and get personal. Cool to see that people here are mature enough to agree to disagree.

It's why I like this forum.  Where else do you see such great discussions between customers and businesses that tend to stay relatively cordial.  It's hard to gauge tone in text and I sometimes worry that I sound like a jerk but I genuinely value and enjoy the discussion and debate and love hearing customer's thoughts and opinions.  Our industry has a lot of growing up to do in a lot of ways.  It's just so small and niche, while also being expensive.  It's quite unique.  The way people shop and purchase has changed significantly in the last couple of decades and I think we could do a better job of adapting to that. 

I really do hope you guys keep sharing your thoughts and shopping experiences.  I hope it doesn't come across that dealers are sometimes talking down to consumers but I could see it sometimes feeling that way.  Honestly, none of us would have our jobs without you guys, so thanks!! I love working in this industry. Merry Christmas to everyone!

[Spatech_tuo]

Am I taking your response out of context or are you saying I should really get over it and it’s no big deal that I went above and beyond for a potential customer and got stood up?  If so, tell me this; put yourself in my shoes or any other dealer, how many times can you be stood up before you implement a refundable deposit policy or some kind of reassurance?

Yep, pretty much.  Your business though, so your call.

FYI  I'm self employed too and I know about being stood up so not without experience on that.

Stood up as in the person not showing is not the issue here. THAT happens all the time in this business as we all know and as you have experienced.

What you haven't experienced is being stood up for a wet test that can be a whole nother matter if it involves moving spas around, filling them, wiring them up and maybe even moving them back later. That does not compare to someone simply not showing up for an appointment.