Comments / questions about water hardness

[Blade-Master]

     When I received my Beachcomber 750 spa, it came along with a water treatment kit called “Simplex 2000”. This kit was supposed to completely manage the water chemistry without need for test strips, etc. Other than adding a teaspoon of sanitizer from time to time, there was supposedly no maintenance required. I was unfamiliar with this and, although skeptical, I used it as directed. After all, it came with the tub and was recommended by the dealer. The initial set-up was somewhat of a pain in the butt, as the first bottle of stuff you add apparently removes all the calcium from the water and precipitates it out (winding up in your filter of course). This made the water cloudy and unusable for a day. After rinsing the filter and running the filter cycle for another 24 hours, however, the water became crystal clear. I was pleasantly surprised. However, after a few weeks I began to notice that the water would become ridiculously foamy whenever the jets were aerated by the blowers. I shocked the water repeatedly, used de-foaming agents, used algaecide, etc. The water remained crystal clear throughout, but bubbled up a 6 inch later of foam every time the jets were turned on. My tub looked like an ice cream sundae. I finally had to drain the tub after only about 4 weeks of use.
    I remembered that when filling my old tub, the instructions I followed required me to actually ADD calcium to the water to increase the hardness to 150 ppm, although I didn’t know why at the time. I went online and noticed a few web sites that said soft water (not enough calcium) can actually damage your tub and cause…..strangely enough……excess foaming! Needless to say, I went back to my old methods of filling my tub and balancing the water chemistry manually and have had no further problems. But the question I have is: Why on earth would the dealer (or manufacturer) recommend a water treatment that could potentially damage the tub?

[windsurfdog]

This leads to another question that would be interesting to discuss here among both spa owners and retailers:

What is the percieved ratio of dealers that are clueless re: water chemistry vs. those that are competent?

IMHO, it sure seems to be much higher than it should--maybe 1/3?

Thank goodness for forums like this and Doc's.  Without them, many of us would be struggling with water chemistry.

Also, IMHO, if one were limited to only one source of water chemistry information, the booklet that accompanies the Taylor Test Kit is impossible to beat.

[tony]

Calcium in a modern acrylic spa is not as important as in the past.  Calcium lightly coats the metal parts of a spa and helps prevent corrosion.  Todays spas are built of materials that are much more resistant.  Use of a product like Spa Defender not only helps reduce scale from calcium, but also protects from little or no calcium.

I can understand the logic of not adding calcium (unless you use baqua).  I do not understand removing all calcium.  Soft water can foam more and it will not have a polished look.  IMO, your thought process is correct.  If your calcium level is a little low, I would not worry.  I would not, however, feel comfortable removing all the calcium.  That being said, I am not familiar with Simplex 2000 and would be wary of any water management system that needs no testing or maintenance.

[zzaphod42]

Call me crazy, but I would be a little hesitant to trust this stuff. Just my opinion. Here is the website (I think) for anyone interested.

http://www.centraljerseypool.com/products/Spastuff/simplex.htm

Joe

[Spa_Tech]

Calcium in a modern acrylic spa is not as important as in the past.  Calcium lightly coats the metal parts of a spa and helps prevent corrosion.  Todays spas are built of materials that are much more resistant.

I disagree. Perhaps I'm a little 'old school' but I recommend maintaining calcium hardness between 200-400ppm for the exact reason Tony outlines in his post. The comment about todays spas being more resistant to corrosion in my opinion is inaccurate. Rubber seals, stainless steel, and heater coils have not changed much and are still susceptable water chemistry abuse as ever. The minor exception to this is in the use of coating like teflon on some heating elements.

As I have outlined in earler posts, mismanaging your water as some of my customers have can critically damage you spas componentry in less than a year- (This typically is due to the combination of soft water and low pH (acidic) conditions.)

Blade-Masters query about why a dealer would recommend a water treatment that could potentially damage the tub is a valid point- Some dealers out there are not very experienced with regular water care and because of this inexperience will try anything new without careful research. They are also motivated by making a profit.

I remain reasonably suspicious of any water care system that promises 'no maintenance' or 'no testing'. Because like the elixer purveyors of old, there always seems to be a side effect--mostly an empty pocketbook.

[tony]

Spa Tech

My calcium hardness runs about 70 out of the tap.  It is very hard otherwise with iron and manganese (sp).  I am going to try raising the calcium hardness to the lower end of your range.

Always looking to protect my investment, I am a loyal user of Spa Defender.

[Blade-Master]

Thanks for the replies. The link zzaphod42 posted in his reply, interestingly enough, is hosted by my dealer's website, Central Jersey Pools. I should have followed my instincts when I filled my spa for the first time, but I didn't figure trying the stuff the dealer sent along with my spa would do any harm. I can't imagine that running that Simplex garbage in my spa for only 4 weeks or so could have done any real damage to my spa, though.

I noticed a few people mention "Spa Defender" in their posts. I use a product called "Minquest" which is a stain and scale remover. Is this basically an identical product, or do I need to use "Spa Defender" in addition to, or in place of the "Minquest" I already use.

[zzaphod42]

Thanks for the replies. The link zzaphod42 posted in his reply, interestingly enough, is hosted by my dealer's website, Central Jersey Pools. I should have followed my instincts when I filled my spa for the first time, but I didn't figure trying the stuff the dealer sent along with my spa would do any harm. I can't imagine that running that Simplex garbage in my spa for only 4 weeks or so could have done any real damage to my spa, though.

From what I gathered on the website, you can only buy the stuff from that particular dealer. I know that it definitely is not something that Beachcomber offers, or recommends, to their dealers.

Joe

[Drewski]

Hi Blade-Master:

Spa Tech's "old school" assessment is right on the mark, in my opinion.  Calcium DOES play a part in overall water chemistry, especially the impact it has on metal components in a heater.

In my experience, foam is formed by oils, dissolved fatty proteins and other solids suspended in solution within the water.  Try using a polymer agent like AquaEZ's "Super Clear Clarifier," available at Lowes stores, to "clean" the water.

Most of the problem posts I read involving "green" water and "foam" are actually dissolved solids problems, NOT water chemistry problems. Your chemistry can be perfect and the water can still look lousy because of "stuff" suspended in solution.

Use the treatment, CLEAN the filters and repeat if needed.

Good Luck!

Drewski

[bulmer4nc]

I noticed a few people mention "Spa Defender" in their posts. I use a product called "Minquest" which is a stain and scale remover. Is this basically an identical product, or do I need to use "Spa Defender" in addition to, or in place of the "Minquest" I already use.

I thought Minquest was a substitute for Metal Gon not Spa Defender...

Here's a description from the website that I bought mine from:

Minquest is a powerfully concentrated and effective metal, stain, and scale reducer/eliminator which inhibits the formation of rusty, green, brown, black or cloudy precipitates in spa water. It can also be added to clear up metal coloration already present in your spa water. Unlike products such as Metal Gon™ which require adding the entire bottle, Minquest is concentrated and very economical to use, requiring only 3 oz. per 500 gallons!

I haven't actually used it yet.  My plan was to use this the next time I refilled the spa instead of Metal Gon.