Hot Spring Sold by Pioneer Pools Toronto Area Help.

[swilly1000]

If they did reduce their leaks by 70% 1) they REALLY had/have a quality control issue in the first place, 2) Its not about the parts but more about the process. The jet itself isn't the issue as much as is the gasket/silicone process, how you install/torque them down, how you plumb them and certainly how you prep the fiberglass... I call BS on claiming they solved their issue with more expensive jets but then again that entire HTU is a big Marketing ploy.

LOL even if he had a way to track this (which he absolutely doesn't) It still wouldn't be believable...his vids are good for a few laughs I will say that

100% agree.  I rarely see leaks from the jets, but even when you do it typically has nothing to do with the jet itself.  It's the manufacturing process more than anything.  HTU guy is a good salesman and sounds super knowledgeable to a consumer but a lot of what he says is total b.s. and spin to sell master spas.

Lol, I flippin' knew that the haters would come out.  That's why I didn't mention Master here lol:

https://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/forum/index.php/topic,17903.0.html

[castletonia]

Rarely do I ever hear or see jet leaks.  Can't imagine that it would make a difference between Waterway and CMP.  I would assume that it is either error when installing the jet fittings or was an issue with a shell mold that didn't allow the jet body to seat properly.  Either way, I could care less between the two jet manufacturers as I can't recall an issue with either or.

[Hottubguy]

Chris from HTU told me that Master went to CMP jets from Waterway starting in 2017.  He also told me that it reduced leak failures by 70% (from, I presume, an already low number) and that the ones they chose were actually more expensive than the Waterway jets.  Without mentioning Master (for fear of inviting a hate-on) I bumped an old thread on CMP vs Waterway to seek some other opinions.

For sure manufacturers will move it around based on cost and performance, especially for components they are out-sourcing anyway.

Marquis also switched to CMP around the same time. Guessing it had to do more with pricing then nything else. In almost 20 years I’ve only seen a couple of jet leaks.

[Spatech_tuo]

Rarely do I ever hear or see jet leaks.  Can't imagine that it would make a difference between Waterway and CMP.  I would assume that it is either error when installing the jet fittings or was an issue with a shell mold that didn't allow the jet body to seat properly.  Either way, I could care less between the two jet manufacturers as I can't recall an issue with either or.

Exactly, its not hating when you are experienced enough to be able to read between the lines.

[bachman]

I'd think the HTU guy would be updating his video information too if for nothing else, but to maintain some level of credibility or positive perception.  I haven't looked him up in a few months now but as with these jets, he's still shown to be touting the WW jets as the premier brand then, and saying they lost their place now. It does make sense to me from comments about assembly, how tubs are built and put together / plumbed etc... that the jets themselves are not a big gremlin.

The reason I like forums on most products, topics or interests is the variety of shared experiences by real owners, tech's ,sales or service people. Nothing better than to weed out the occasional misplaced rant, fancy advertising or promises and a wealth of confirmation bias that can develop.
It seems like the quality, brand, marketing and pricing mysteries of hot tubs help make HTU a genuine-sounding hero of inside information.

I really feel my good fortune in getting a free tub is second only to the fantastic miss-out not having to shop, trust or learn as I go when I'd have been considering a sizable expense on such a contraption. At the time and with little knowledge, I'd guess we might have been looking in the $7000 to $8000 range. Certainly not the luxury tier as I'm finding out anyways.   

*I know not everyone agrees on everything but I thank all who are willing to share some thoughts, opinions or experience's for the newer tubbers. 

The most exciting things that happened to me Friday was finding my secondary car keyfob (temporarily lost) and testing the water in the tub to see all parameters hit the mark. Not quite 3 weeks since filling and starting chemistry, I might have nearly double dosed with the bromine floater and some leftover in the frog but I then read bromine takes a while to get the level in there.
Now for a week or so, I took the floater out and it's right on the money.

[swilly1000]

For greater certainty I don't blindly rely on HTU, which is why I bumped that old thread about the jets.  I was testing his assertions.

What continues to bewilder me though is how people jump all over him, calling him a shill, questioning his motives and generally dissing him (and Master).

The tipping point for me in trusting him is that he speaks highly of and even recommends brands he doesn't sell.  Go ahead and respond by saying that it is "all part of the plan" if you want.  But to me, his willingness to endorse other brands is a big plus in this murky world of mysterious pricing and where the consumer has to place manufacturer/dealer integrity much higher on the radar than in other markets.

He plainly states on his web site that the culture of this market is what inspired him to start HTU.  In my view, rather than trashing him, which is the easy thing to do, the industry should take a long look in the mirror and do the tougher thing, which is to change its shady practices.

All of this being said, I acknowledge my lack of experience. And to some degree I admit that I'm stirring the pot to provoke discussion. What I really look forward to is getting into a few other brands of hot tubs to compare performance.  That will take some time for sure.  Once that's done I will be in a much stronger position to judge.

[Hottubguy]

For greater certainty I don't blindly rely on HTU, which is why I bumped that old thread about the jets.  I was testing his assertions.

What continues to bewilder me though is how people jump all over him, calling him a shill, questioning his motives and generally dissing him (and Master).

The tipping point for me in trusting him is that he speaks highly of and even recommends brands he doesn't sell.  Go ahead and respond by saying that it is "all part of the plan" if you want.  But to me, his willingness to endorse other brands is a big plus in this murky world of mysterious pricing and where the consumer has to place manufacturer/dealer integrity much higher on the radar than in other markets.

He plainly states on his web site that the culture of this market is what inspired him to start HTU.  In my view, rather than trashing him, which is the easy thing to do, the industry should take a long look in the mirror and do the tougher thing, which is to change its shady practices.

All of this being said, I acknowledge my lack of experience. And to some degree I admit that I'm stirring the pot to provoke discussion. What I really look forward to is getting into a few other brands of hot tubs to compare performance.  That will take some time for sure.  Once that's done I will be in a much stronger position to judge.

My biggest issue with him is he thinks he knows everything about hot tubs. On the other brands he recommends (take Marquis for instance because I know and sell them) he is very inaccurate with a lot of his facts about them. I haven’t been on his site in awhile but if you look at his recommendations 90% of the time it’s Master unless Master isn’t available. Most of what he is saying he probably believes to be true but unless you work with a particular brand day in and day out you aren’t going to really know that brand.

[BullFrogSpasMN]

If they did reduce their leaks by 70% 1) they REALLY had/have a quality control issue in the first place, 2) Its not about the parts but more about the process. The jet itself isn't the issue as much as is the gasket/silicone process, how you install/torque them down, how you plumb them and certainly how you prep the fiberglass... I call BS on claiming they solved their issue with more expensive jets but then again that entire HTU is a big Marketing ploy.

LOL even if he had a way to track this (which he absolutely doesn't) It still wouldn't be believable...his vids are good for a few laughs I will say that

100% agree.  I rarely see leaks from the jets, but even when you do it typically has nothing to do with the jet itself.  It's the manufacturing process more than anything.  HTU guy is a good salesman and sounds super knowledgeable to a consumer but a lot of what he says is total b.s. and spin to sell master spas.

Lol, I flippin' knew that the haters would come out.  That's why I didn't mention Master here lol:

https://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/forum/index.php/topic,17903.0.html

Not a hater at all, just being realistic and honest....At the end of the day I could care less about Master Spas, their 'Flash on Trash' junk they build is of no concern to me or my bottom line. If you want someone worried about Master you'll have a to find a Cal Spa dealer, that's the junk that competes well with Master Spas lol....

[swilly1000]

My biggest issue with him is he thinks he knows everything about hot tubs. On the other brands he recommends (take Marquis for instance because I know and sell them) he is very inaccurate with a lot of his facts about them. I haven’t been on his site in awhile but if you look at his recommendations 90% of the time it’s Master unless Master isn’t available. Most of what he is saying he probably believes to be true but unless you work with a particular brand day in and day out you aren’t going to really know that brand.

Can you be more specific about the facts he has wrong?

[Hottubguy]

My biggest issue with him is he thinks he knows everything about hot tubs. On the other brands he recommends (take Marquis for instance because I know and sell them) he is very inaccurate with a lot of his facts about them. I haven’t been on his site in awhile but if you look at his recommendations 90% of the time it’s Master unless Master isn’t available. Most of what he is saying he probably believes to be true but unless you work with a particular brand day in and day out you aren’t going to really know that brand.

I have a few written at my office but the one that I remember exact was he was telling people that Microsilk is a expensive chemical system and you are better off using Spa Marvel. Fact is Microsilk has nothing to do with chemicals and 10 minutes of time on there website and he could’ve figured that out for himself. He is definitely educated on Master but not so much on anything else.

Can you be more specific about the facts he has wrong?

[swilly1000]

At the end of the day I could care less about Master Spas, their 'Flash on Trash' junk they build is of no concern to me or my bottom line. If you want someone worried about Master you'll have a to find a Cal Spa dealer, that's the junk that competes well with Master Spas lol....

Haha "'Flash on trash' junk"? That sure sounds like a lot of dislike, if not hate, to me.

I would like to try a Bullfrog spa.  They look like silly to me.  Hopefully they perform well.

[swilly1000]

I have a few written at my office but the one that I remember exact was he was telling people that Microsilk is a expensive chemical system and you are better off using Spa Marvel. Fact is Microsilk has nothing to do with chemicals and 10 minutes of time on there website and he could’ve figured that out for himself.

I have read his site thoroughly and that is not correct. He knows what Microsilk is and he has responded to several questions from consumers.  He says it's a gimmicky overpriced option.

Incidentally I checked out a tub with Microsilk when I wet tested at a Marquis dealer. I really liked the performance of the Vector I was in but I was shocked when told the price of the Microsilk option.  No way was I paying that much for that.  I bet a lot of husbands get ordered by their wives to buy it though! That option is uber-obviously targeting the ladies.

I would be interested in hearing the other facts that you think he has wrong.

[Hottubguy]

Unless he has changed his turn over the last few months that is exactly what he said.

[Hottubguy]

I’m not going through 4-5 years of posts. Two of my customers have showed me the post in his hot tub buyers guide comment section. Another thing he says is to avoid E-series because of parts lists but endorsed the signature series. Newsflash to him the equipment other then the topside is exactly the same. I could care less that you bought a Master Spa, could careless that you think this guy is a god of hot tubs but all he is a Master Spa saleman who sells hot tubs out of his garage. He is a great marketer for Master Spas that’s for sure.

[d00nut]

He is a Master Spa salesman (typical spa salesman) that bashes pretty much all other brands.  End of story.  It is what it is.  You can choose to believe him, but I see through his crap.