Hot Spring Sold by Pioneer Pools Toronto Area Help.

[dishdude]

Two takeaways from Chris's website info.

Proprietary controls. Don't buy a spa without Balboa/Gecko controls. From my research, all of the top spa manufactures by volume use proprietary controls including Hot Springs, Caldera, Jacuzzi, Arctic, D-1, Sundance ect. Discounting the worlds best hot tub manufacture's is not sound purchasing advise.

Circulation pump is a waste of money. If you have a Ozone generator, I am sure it will be more effective with one. I was specifically  looking for a spa with cir pump and ozonator. (bromine)

There are some good points there. The Hot Spring remote control panel I have has been nothing but a headache for me! Do you know how many times I have got out of the tub and the remote has lost connection with the tub? I have to go to the disconnected and turn the breaker off. This has been going on for 3.5 years and I have zero confidence I'll make it out of warranty. I'm already looking for a replacement tub.

[Sam]

Two takeaways from Chris's website info.

Proprietary controls. Don't buy a spa without Balboa/Gecko controls. From my research, all of the top spa manufactures by volume use proprietary controls including Hot Springs, Caldera, Jacuzzi, Arctic, D-1, Sundance ect. Discounting the worlds best hot tub manufacture's is not sound purchasing advise.

Circulation pump is a waste of money. If you have a Ozone generator, I am sure it will be more effective with one. I was specifically  looking for a spa with cir pump and ozonator. (bromine)

There are some good points there. The Hot Spring remote control panel I have has been nothing but a headache for me! Do you know how many times I have got out of the tub and the remote has lost connection with the tub? I have to go to the disconnected and turn the breaker off. This has been going on for 3.5 years and I have zero confidence I'll make it out of warranty. I'm already looking for a replacement tub.

Generally speaking, Hot Spring has a reputation for building great, reliable spas.  When I sold them years ago it was not uncommon to have customers who had 20+ year old spas still rocking.  I think the longest was a 31 year old Classic.  The old "dog dish" spa that was built like a tank! 

Every complicated product will have some issues, but as a direct competitor to Hot Spring I still admire them as a company.  They take care of they customers and dealers and make a very nice hot tub. 

In my opinion, the whole proprietary parts thing is a silly reason to avoid a brand in and of itself.  It allows them to build a system where the components are designed to work together with their intended purpose.  The sum is greater than the whole if it's parts.  They aren't just picking components off the shelf from different manufacturers and putting them together like a lot of brands.  They are designed from the ground up.  I would argue this should lead to a better performing product in the right hands with the right resources.  And guess what?  Watkins is owned by a multi-billion dollar global manufacturer.  They probably have the most resources of any spa manufacturer out there.

You may say "but the parts are more expensive".  Their pumps are the same price as any other high end spa.  Some things may be slightly more expensive but why is that necessarily a bad thing?  You don't buy a hot spring because you want a cheap spa.  Why would you expect cheap parts?  This is yet another thing that I think chris gets wrong.  He hates on hot spring but I bet he has little experience with them.  Thinking master is better than h.s. is just ludicrous. 

[d00nut]

Anti-innovation is awful for the customer.  That's what Chris is.  Balboa makes great parts, but they are no less expensive than any other proprietary control system. 

Also... how often do I actually replace controls/boards?  Most of them I would say come from strange situations like lightining strikes.  Some die, but it's a relatively rare situation.

My Chevy Silverado has a unique Chevy Mylink infotainment system... but I shouldn't have bought that... primarily because I am beholden to them to replace it IF it breaks... god forbid! 

I should have bought an early 2000's honda with no touch screen where the parts are readily available

[Sam]

Great point on the car comparison. 

By the way, I don't come across as antagonistic in this thread.  I actually enjoy and appreciate the discussion.  It can be difficult to sort through the b.s. in our industry.  I also suspect that most of the front-line sales guys know and understand very little about our industry and just regurgitate whatever sales pitch they are taught.

[swilly1000]

I also suspect that most of the front-line sales guys know and understand very little about our industry and just regurgitate whatever sales pitch they are taught.

That's exactly one of the points that Chris Wheatley makes on his site.  It explains mediocrity, but it doesn't excuse it.  The high performers rise above that s**t.

One of my clients sums it up perfectly....she says "Mediocrity is easy.  Don't do easy."

If there's any consolation, somebody's got to bring down the average!

[Spatech_tuo]

I also suspect that most of the front-line sales guys know and understand very little about our industry and just regurgitate whatever sales pitch they are taught.

That's exactly one of the points that Chris Wheatley makes on his site.  It explains mediocrity, but it doesn't excuse it.  The high performers rise above that s**t.

One of my clients sums it up perfectly....she says "Mediocrity is easy.  Don't do easy."

If there's any consolation, somebody's got to bring down the average!

LOL, his marketing ploy videos are a joke because while he may state some good theory we are then supposed to believe who he determines breaks the "rules" of quality, value, engineering ... and who passes.

[Sam]

Great point on the car comparison. 

By the way, I don't come across as antagonistic in this thread.  I actually enjoy and appreciate the discussion.  It can be difficult to sort through the b.s. in our industry.  I also suspect that most of the front-line sales guys know and understand very little about our industry and just regurgitate whatever sales pitch they are taught.

Just re-read my post and there is a typo that changes my meaning lol.  I meant to say that "I don't intend to come across as antagonistic..." 

[bachman]

I also suspect that most of the front-line sales guys know and understand very little about our industry and just regurgitate whatever sales pitch they are taught.

That's exactly one of the points that Chris Wheatley makes on his site.  It explains mediocrity, but it doesn't excuse it.  The high performers rise above that s**t.

One of my clients sums it up perfectly....she says "Mediocrity is easy.  Don't do easy."

If there's any consolation, somebody's got to bring down the average!

LOL, his marketing ploy videos are a joke because while he may state some good theory we are then supposed to believe who he determines breaks the "rules" of quality, value, engineering ... and who passes.

Yeah, makes me think of his presentations as Some truth, Some good ideas and Some hype but then mixing in (sneaking?) his own agenda making it more difficult to separate facts from opinion. 
He's just disingenuous in some cases.

As for the proprietary parts versus some bigger name parts, good points on both sides.... if avaialblitiy for some part that might be more frequently used or needed is an issue, it's sure is nice to walk into a store a grab something off the shelf rather than feel held hostage by less timely sourcing. That would really be the only practical concern I'd have.

Yet I'm new to all this and wonder if these talks about parts gets people thinking they might be stuck with specialty jets, nozzles or other parts that have a unique way to fasten to the plumbing line and then end up buying and trying 2, 3 or 4 types to get it right. I've read of an experience or two like that but maybe a teeny bit of research first is all that was needed.
Playing on the fears does seem easy though.

[Sam]

When a manufacturer passes a certain threshold for number of units sold, there will always be an outlet for their parts (or equivalent part) even if that company closes or something along those lines.  Hot spring is well past that threshold.