Narrowed it down to 3 tubs

[Chytoolmaker]

Trying to make a decision out of these three tubs, I can't wet test the bullfrog, looking for any advice to aid in my decision

Marquis Euphoria
Constellation led
Ozonator
Wi-Fi
$12,500 otd

Sundance Optima
$13,750 otd

Bullfrog A8
$12,560 otd


All include steps, cover lifts, chemicals, and delivery

I'm leaning towards the Marquis, but I do find the minimal plumbing on the bullfrog might make it a wise choice, less chance of future internal leaks

[Hottubguy]

Can you wet test any Bullfrogs?  I’m taking it you liked he Marquis better then the Sundance based on wet test?  All 3 make great tubs go with the one that fits you best

[Chytoolmaker]

Can you wet test any Bullfrogs?  I’m taking it you liked he Marquis better then the Sundance based on wet test?  All 3 make great tubs go with the one that fits you best

The only bullfrog dealer near me are all dry in the showroom...
I do like the different seat heights on the Marquis over the sundance, I'm planning to wet test both this week

[Tman122]

Less plumbing has absolutely nothing to do with feel or longevity of a hot tub. Plumbing leaks are so rare on the quality brands that I would put zero weight on that sales pitch.

[Thisismyname]

I had a Caldera that had lots of issues/leaks. 

Light leaked a few times.  Ozonator leaked and stopped functioning.  Shell began to form bubbles on it.

My brother got the identical tub at the same time and had the same issues.

Caldera replaced both entire tubs but even my 2nd one had issues.  This was about 10 years ago

Now I have a Bullfrog...just got it last Oct but no issues yet. 

Not saying its any better or worse for reliability just my experience.

[silversun]

I looked at all 3, wet tested BF and Sundance, and ended up going with the Optima. I found the Optima's jets to be the strongest, and loved the foot dome and filtration, both were better on the Sundance were better than Bullfrog.

I paid 12,200 for it out the door, so you should be able to get a better price assuming you're not getting the built in stereo.

[Tman122]

I had a Caldera that had lots of issues/leaks. 

Light leaked a few times.  Ozonator leaked and stopped functioning.  Shell began to form bubbles on it.

My brother got the identical tub at the same time and had the same issues.

Caldera replaced both entire tubs but even my 2nd one had issues.  This was about 10 years ago

Now I have a Bullfrog...just got it last Oct but no issues yet. 

Not saying its any better or worse for reliability just my experience.

Not a single one of the issues listed has anything to do with less or more plumbing.

[Hottubguy]

I looked at all 3, wet tested BF and Sundance, and ended up going with the Optima. I found the Optima's jets to be the strongest, and loved the foot dome and filtration, both were better on the Sundance were better than Bullfrog.

I paid 12,200 for it out the door, so you should be able to get a better price assuming you're not getting the built in stereo.

Pure curiosity question for you silversun because I don’t know the answer to it. Why did you feel the filtration was better on the Optima versus the Bullfrog?  $12,200 is a very aggressive number. Guessing you got that from the guy up in New Hampshire. That is definitely closer to a $14,000 Tub.

[silversun]

It came down to the combination of the horizontal filter (i felt like it has higher surface area and catches more debris) and the UV light, which sundance has and bullfrog does not.

BF was my second choice though, and I really liked it but it just didn't have the same appeal as the sundance.   

[Thisismyname]

I had a Caldera that had lots of issues/leaks. 

Light leaked a few times.  Ozonator leaked and stopped functioning.  Shell began to form bubbles on it.

My brother got the identical tub at the same time and had the same issues.

Caldera replaced both entire tubs but even my 2nd one had issues.  This was about 10 years ago

Now I have a Bullfrog...just got it last Oct but no issues yet. 

Not saying its any better or worse for reliability just my experience.

Not a single one of the issues listed has anything to do with less or more plumbing.

Thanks for noticing

[Sam]

It came down to the combination of the horizontal filter (i felt like it has higher surface area and catches more debris) and the UV light, which sundance has and bullfrog does not.

Fyi, there isn't much truth to this.  Any high-end hot tub from a reputable manufacturer is going to have more than adequate filtration.  Filtration often gets conflated with sanitization which is probably not the right way to think about it.  Yes, you need filtration but the actual filters themselves and size differences or orientation in the water is mostly b.s. after a minimum. 
Uv light is sold by salesman as some amazing low chemical system and I'm just not convinced that it does a whole lot.  UV can only affect what is directly in the line of sight of the light.  Even then, it's arguable that does a whole lot in a hot tub.  You still need to maintain a constant residual of chlorine or bromine, but instead of 3ppm you can get away with 1 ppm.  Add in the cost and maintenance of replacing a UV bulb and I'm not sure it's worth it.  Chlorine is cheap.

Every reputable manufacturer (the 5-8 frequently mentioned here) will all have a perfectly fine filtration system.  I wouldn't use this as a deciding factor in my purchase.  It's basically the same with sanitization or oxidation.  Whether it's UV, ozone, or a combination, I've only ever seen one that I felt was truly better than the rest and that's Artesian's propure system.  I've done some side by side comparisons with a few other systems and it was objectively more effective.  Obviously I have only done this with a few brands, but have some experience with quite a few of them out there.

[silversun]

Chlorine is cheap, yes. But it's also a chemical. 
I actually did consider it a big deal that you can go from 3ppm down to 1ppm with UV light. That's not just a salesmens pitch, thats actual data.  It's only a matter of whether you decide that's important in your purchase decision. you're saying it shouldn't be. i disagreed when i bought Sundance. Is your response not also a sales pitch/objection handling?

I'm sure there are a lot of consumers like me out there who want to reduce the chlorine they're exposed to over the 10-15 years they own the hot tub. If so, buy one with UV, and be prepared to pay to replace it every year. If not, don't.

[Sam]

That wasn't meant as an attack on you or your decision.  I just see a lot of companies misrepresent exactly what the UV system does and does not do.  I also think that the difference between 1 and 3 ppm doesn't change much in the end because many customers start off adding too little chlorine for their bather load because most people seem to want lower chlorine levels.  This inevitably leads to water quality issues which most certainly get resolved by adding more chlorine.  The end result is that most people end up about 3ppm to avoid cloudy water. 

Additionally, I've sold thousands of spas with UV systems and Ozone systems.  I would estimate that about 5% end up purchasing a replacement bulb or ozone chip after the estimated life expectancy.  This tells me that these things will stop working at some point and either the customer doesn't even realize it or they determined it's not worth it.  I've specifically had this discussion with a Sundance salesperson who has had a very similar experience.

Again, not trying to attack you or your decision.  My intention was to point out what I believe is mostly noise in a lot of sales pitches and make it easier for people to distill things down.  Most people find this process overwhelming with so much conflicting information.  I think that the difference between a reputable manufacturers water treatment system is pretty negligible in the end.  They all have a system that works pretty well.  I think you are better of assuming that and focusing on how the hot tub feels, fits, meets your budget, and comfort with a dealer.

Take that for what it's.  I've been doing this for 23 years and genuinely post here to provide information to confused customers on a subject that I am very experienced in.  A subject that I often hear is overwhelming to the consumer.   I really like Sundance spas.  I was not bashing them. 

[The Wizard of Spas]

That wasn't meant as an attack on you or your decision.  I just see a lot of companies misrepresent exactly what the UV system does and does not do.  I also think that the difference between 1 and 3 ppm doesn't change much in the end because many customers start off adding too little chlorine for their bather load because most people seem to want lower chlorine levels.  This inevitably leads to water quality issues which most certainly get resolved by adding more chlorine.  The end result is that most people end up about 3ppm to avoid cloudy water. 

Additionally, I've sold thousands of spas with UV systems and Ozone systems.  I would estimate that about 5% end up purchasing a replacement bulb or ozone chip after the estimated life expectancy.  This tells me that these things will stop working at some point and either the customer doesn't even realize it or they determined it's not worth it.  I've specifically had this discussion with a Sundance salesperson who has had a very similar experience.

Again, not trying to attack you or your decision.  My intention was to point out what I believe is mostly noise in a lot of sales pitches and make it easier for people to distill things down.  Most people find this process overwhelming with so much conflicting information.  I think that the difference between a reputable manufacturers water treatment system is pretty negligible in the end.  They all have a system that works pretty well.  I think you are better of assuming that and focusing on how the hot tub feels, fits, meets your budget, and comfort with a dealer.

Take that for what it's.  I've been doing this for 23 years and genuinely post here to provide information to confused customers on a subject that I am very experienced in.  A subject that I often hear is overwhelming to the consumer.   I really like Sundance spas.  I was not bashing them.

+1

There is nothing that is an EPA-registered sanitizer outside of Chlorine, Bromine, or Biguianide.  You have to use some "chemical" in your hot tub.  Astute of SilverSun to point out the lifespan of ozone.  But- and to be totally fair- UV/CD have not just varying degrees of lifespan, but varying degrees of ability to aid in the sanitization process.  You can buy better ozone (add a CD to a UV, etc) or longer lasting ozone (plasma, microcell, etc), but when it comes to sanitization, ozone is not just what you buy, but how it is plumbed.  Some ozone cannot have more that 15gpm speed of the flow.  The more plumbing, larger chambers, etc. can help.  But in the end- Its just helping.  Just like a filter- Its an assistant to water chemistry. 

Mineral-based systems (something that uses bacterialcides and algecides like silver, copper, zinc, etc), like Frog/Nature 2 would do more for the reduction in "chemicals" than ozone.  Unless you're buying something gigantic and paying $250-$500 every year/2 years to replace.  But then again- and maybe this is semantics- it also depends on your definition of "chemicals."  Mineral systems rely on Potassium Peroxymonopersulfate (MPS, or Spa Shock) which is not harsh and an effective oxidizer, but is a "chemical" nonetheless.  And- Sodium Carbonate (pH increaser) is a chemical.  You see how this can really get convoluted?

Again- Like Sam- Not knocking the decision.  At all.  There are numerous ways to treat a spa.  Its just that others read these posts now and in the future and there tends to always be tons of nuances that I try and shed light on, so that the most amount of accurate information can be of full display.

Sorry if I muddied the water further.

[Tman122]

I would put Sundance in my top ten, I think everyone could agree there. Closer to one or ten is going to be a personal choice. There's a ton of them by me and they seem to hold up well. I have disposed of a few (15-20 yo) and refurbed and sold a few. Local dealer is now gone but this is pretty remote up here I don't blame crappy tub. Most recent was a 12 yo Altamar got a couple grand for it after very little work. The buyer was satisfied and still is. It would be about 15 yo now. Sometimes parts can be hard to get for non-dealer repair guys like me. Lots of proprietary stuff.

I put Marquis ahead of Sundance. But again personal preference. I don't know enough about or see many BF other than the sales pitch. I still think top ten for sure. I will get blasted but ...........Jet Pacs seem like a waste once you've initially decided on the feel (plus for BF) but do you want a customer maintained jet pump seal? Seems an easy failure point especially if you move pacs a lot. And water distribution can be noisy. Putting it in the tub by your ears instead of the equipment area surrounded in foam or insulation seems, well noisy.