Another Newbie, Another question. Something a bit different - water changes?

[Michael Russell]

Thanks Kies,

Sorry I missed that your post was there, it just got lost in the quoted text.. Thanks again...

I am chatting with Pioneer via email... They have no locations out on the east end though. Couple hour drive to one of there "super stores".. Maybe next week I will get to poke in..

Sorry about that,

I am south of Toronto, Southern Ontario and purchased at a pioneer family pools location. Would rather not discuss pricing but was very happy with what I paid. Salt water option I think was an additional 800 to 1000 but do not quote me on that. Looked at Jacuzzi and  arctic  as well. Upgrading to the lime light series from hot spot you also get a better warranty. Nicer cabinet, exterior corner lights and it also has 41 jets.

[Michael Russell]

Not sure who is following. But thought I would update anyways... I have visited most of the major brands and have myself down to Master, Marquis and Artisian. Each has there points that I like.. Dealers are a bit of an issue for me though.

Master (TW8.25 or HL 8.5) is a 2 hours drive from the house. The dealer has stated that he will not charge for service calls or delivery. Just a long ways in case of problems. 2 Pumps lots of jets..
Marquis (Euphoria or Hollywood elite) is a 30 minute drive away. Decent dealer. No major concerns.  Seems to be built much like the Master
Artisian (Grand Cayman or Captiva) is a 45 minute drive away. They want to charge $200 delivery and $100 per service call. Not the warmest feelings I have ever had in terms of the dealer but not terrible. Similar to the other options but has 3 pumps instead of 2 and also has a Circ pump. So 4 pumps.

Away a lot right now for work so trying to coordinate a wet test might be 3 or 4 weeks. All are a bit of a drive and all in different directions.

I did finish building my pad today though. Next up to wire up the juice.

Mike

[castletonia]

I’m not a fan of Master Spas at all.  My beliefs aside, when a dealer is 2 hours away, it makes it difficult for them to service you in a timely manner.  Marquis and Artesian are quality brands.  I would personally seek out local options first and only consider a dealer that far away if and only if they were the best dealer and offer the best hot tub.

[Spatech_tuo]

Master (TW8.25 or HL 8.5) is a 2 hours drive from the house. The dealer has stated that he will not charge for service calls or delivery. Just a long ways in case of problems. 2 Pumps lots of jets..

Marquis (Euphoria or Hollywood elite) is a 30 minute drive away. Decent dealer. No major concerns.  Seems to be built much like the Master

Artisian (Grand Cayman or Captiva) is a 45 minute drive away. They want to charge $200 delivery and $100 per service call.

1-The Master name alone would make me look elsewhere.

2- Marquis is fine

3-Artesian is fine too. BTW delivery is NEVER free. All the others added it to the total price for you while this dealer separates it so if that bothers you think of it as free but the cost of the spa is $200 more than they quoted, same thing. The $100 service charge is not unwarranted for 45 minutes away. Ask them to waive it the first year. Ask them for other things as well, negotiating should never stop until one side of he other says NO THAT'S IT.

[Michael Russell]

I have reservations about the Master due to distance.. Seems like there is a lot of dislike for the Master brand on this forum. Anyone willing to share some insight? HotTubUniversity guy loves them.. The only thing I have heard from one repair guy, is that he has repaired a bunch of leaks on them....


I did a wet test in a the Marquis Epic Yesterday. Enjoyed. The jets were not as strong as I expected but was very nice still. Dealer says the Filters need to be cleaned and will pickup pressure once done. Not sure how much of a difference it would make.  It did feel great though after slugging 3 yards of gravel and 20 patio stones.

Will try and squeeze a wet test in the Artisian, likely not for a couple weeks. Not ideal but so be it.

Thoughts on Artisian of Marquis? The Artisian Grand Bahama lists 1x6BHP and 3x3BHP pumps plus a Circ pump a believe. The Marquis is 2 pumps (2x6bhp I believe) with no Circ. Master I believe would be the same 2x6bhp.

Thoughts?

[Spatech_tuo]

HotTubUniversity guy loves them..

He's a shill for the brand, don't get sucked in by his videos.

[Michael Russell]

Hey Spatech..

Taking the HotUni guys Pimping of Master away from the videos I think there is a lot of value to what he does. That said he is a hardcore pimp for Master

Is there specific things you do not like about Master? This is just me trying to educate myself.

[castletonia]

I have reservations about the Master due to distance.. Seems like there is a lot of dislike for the Master brand on this forum. Anyone willing to share some insight? HotTubUniversity guy loves them.. The only thing I have heard from one repair guy, is that he has repaired a bunch of leaks on them....


I did a wet test in a the Marquis Epic Yesterday. Enjoyed. The jets were not as strong as I expected but was very nice still. Dealer says the Filters need to be cleaned and will pickup pressure once done. Not sure how much of a difference it would make.  It did feel great though after slugging 3 yards of gravel and 20 patio stones.

Will try and squeeze a wet test in the Artisian, likely not for a couple weeks. Not ideal but so be it.

Thoughts on Artisian of Marquis? The Artisian Grand Bahama lists 1x6BHP and 3x3BHP pumps plus a Circ pump a believe. The Marquis is 2 pumps (2x6bhp I believe) with no Circ. Master I believe would be the same 2x6bhp.

Thoughts?

Brake horsepower means nothing.  In my opinion, horsepower means nothing.  You have to take into account the jets that are being powered, how much plumbing there is and how well engineered the plumbing design is.  Too much power is not a good thing.  The Marquis is 2HP continuous.  Generally, whenever you see BHP, cut that number in 1/2, maybe even a little more. 

Hot Tub University guy is a Master dealer.  Take anything he says with a grain of salt.  Most of the negative you hear about Master Spas is due to the questionable ethics they have, that their prices are extremely inflated and that they position themselves as premium when they are not.  I think their filtration is gimmicky in that it is no different than a Nature2, their cabinets are the lowest cost possible, and I think their therapy, like many other mid-tier manufacturers, is designed to be spec impressive vs designed for optimal benefit.  If they were priced appropriately and you had a reputable dealer, they could be fine, but I personally think there are too many other reputable manufacturers to choose from.

[silversun]

Sure, he may be a shill for Master, but I think most consumers are smart enough to recognize this early on and discount some of this information. But people are listening to him because he's one of the few clear voices in a very opaque, muddled industry.

I find his videos valuable and entertaining, and still subscribe to his site 13 months after my purchase (I didn't buy a master). He does have a lot of good knowledge about hot tubs, and if taken with a grain of salt can be valuable.

[Michael Russell]

Well said Silversun...

Sure, he may be a shill for Master, but I think most consumers are smart enough to recognize this early on and discount some of this information. But people are listening to him because he's one of the few clear voices in a very opaque, muddled industry.

I find his videos valuable and entertaining, and still subscribe to his site 13 months after my purchase (I didn't buy a master). He does have a lot of good knowledge about hot tubs, and if taken with a grain of salt can be valuable.

[Spatech_tuo]

Hey Spatech..

Taking the HotUni guys Pimping of Master away from the videos I think there is a lot of value to what he does. That said he is a hardcore pimp for Master

Is there specific things you do not like about Master? This is just me trying to educate myself.

I'm sure it works for the 95% who can't see that its all based on the agenda that Master does everything the right way (much of it is subtle the way he leads people along). He certainly is knowledgeable but Master is a middling quality product from a manufacturer you can NOT trust. Put him with a good product and those videos would have more value.

No one here is saying "buy brand Y instead" so we're not doing what he is doing which is to steer you to 1 single brand.

We're saying "buy any one of these dozen other options instead".

[swilly1000]

I totally bought into what Chris had to say.  My TS 8.25 is being delivered Wednesday and I can't wait.

I'm also interested in exactly why so many people think Master is mid-tier.  Lots of talk, little specifics compared to other "top" and unnamed brands.

[Hottubguy]

Sure, he may be a shill for Master, but I think most consumers are smart enough to recognize this early on and discount some of this information. But people are listening to him because he's one of the few clear voices in a very opaque, muddled industry.

I find his videos valuable and entertaining, and still subscribe to his site 13 months after my purchase (I didn't buy a master). He does have a lot of good knowledge about hot tubs, and if taken with a grain of salt can be valuable.

See I disagree with that. He does have a lot of knowledge about Master Spas. But other then that he spits out a bunch of half truths on other brands. I’ve read through a number of articles on his site. He has actually referred my company to someone on his site. The other company he recommends in my area is quite possibly the scummiest spa dealer I have ever met and he claims he is one of the best dealers around. One of his HTU all star dealers. He is what he is a Master Spa dealer who sells tubs out of his house in Canada. I hope Master Spa is compensating him well for running that site because that’s about the only good press they get.

[Hottubguy]

I totally bought into what Chris had to say.  My TS 8.25 is being delivered Wednesday and I can't wait.

I'm also interested in exactly why so many people think Master is mid-tier.  Lots of talk, little specifics compared to other "top" and unnamed brands.

Cheapest cabinets I have ever seen
One of the loudest tubs to run I have ever heard.
Energy efficiency is lacking.
Manufacturer themselves are next to impossible to deal with.
They come into my area probably 3-4 times a year and I’m guessing they sell a decent amount of tubs. The people that come in think they got a $20,000 hot tub for !6000 until they realize what exactly they got. Most of these customers are also under the impression that there run is chemical free because of the bozo that sold the tub.
They aren’t a terrible tub but there are at least a dozen better options out there

[swilly1000]

Sounds like another pi**ed dealer whose business is being taken by the road shows.  To be honest, the company's "dishonest sales practices" don't mean s**t to me.  I'm a consumer not the dealer whose territory is being infringed upon. I care about a well made high performance therapy tub, not how the company decides to penetrate it's markets.

Too bad we couldn't filter out the "reviews" of biased stakeholders and just hear from end users about their experiences.

The fake and/or biased reviews about Master just further underscore what a nonsensical and cloudy market hot tubs are.  The pricing game in this market is shameful.  The reviews are unreliable.  Total minefield for the consumer.