Another Newbie, Another question. Something a bit different - water changes?

[bachman]

​If it wasn't for HTU I might still be looking around and wondering what is the best tub.  What struck me though even on Chris' site is that although there is lots of info about marketing spin vs good quality build, there still isn't a real lot about price

Until manufacturers and dealers get past this resistance to price disclosure, consumers will perceive them as (to borrow Michael Russell's word) greasy.

He's right smack in the industry or sales, self promotion so I'm not surprised he isn't trying to reason or explain the variation of marketing by others or speaking unfavorably of manufacturer policy on MSRP guidelines. Reputable or fair-minded dealers have to compete with some shady others and I understand they all have their own way of trying to cut through the fog but what works for customer A doesn't' always work for customer B. There are plenty of customers who are as shady and narrow minded as some dealers or salespeople out there so it's not all Cookie Cutter simple.   
In some sales areas like cars, appliances , electronics etc... manufactures have some say or control on how their product is represented. If enforced, some stores lose the name brands that had a higher tier of expectations or professionalism. Maybe this isn't happening in Hot Tub sales -- a huge ticket item that deserves to be professionally represented.
I found his information pretty helpful and believe if shoppers read between the lines some and once armed with information, they can vette to some degree as apropos. If one truly lets the "greaseball", high pressure circus clown be their go-to person on sales and service in the process of spending thousands or ten of thousands of dollars, they let it happen.

Too bad stores can't just sell off dealer invoice showing cost and have it a "Cost Plus" basis as car and suv or trucks were doing starting in the early 1990's. If a customer won't allow a store to sell and make a fair or reasonable profit, let them walk down the block to the gorilla suit sidewalk dancers.

In 20 years of sales/ marketing, the only foundation I found that worked well was;  Deliver more than you promise, represent quality you don't have to apologize for, and back up everything you say or have with facts or customer testimony. Some customers or business is okay to let walk away.

[Michael Russell]

Well my Tub is in.. Its about 1 week ahead of Schedule. I was told 4 weeks to the warehouse and about another week to me. They made it to my house in 3.5 weeks....
Hydro and filled last night. I have hit 95 over night and trying to figure out chemicals now. sooo much fun ;-)

Thanks for all the help gents!

[Roeboat]

Congrats, you got it fast. You are going to love it.

[Michael Russell]

I did run into one issue with Hydro. The conduit did not line up with hole provided from the far corner I planned to come in. Because the cover lifter was already on I could not fully remove the panel to see if I could adjust the conduit. I was running Tek cable though so I just ran along the side of the tub to the corner closest to the termination points and in that corner instead. I talked to the dealer today. He is going to have service guy stop by to have a look to see if its a user error or a build error. Really not concerned about it. The Tek is run between the house and the tub and not an area anyone should be anyways. Even if we can adjust the conduit I will probably leave the tek where it is.. It would be a couple hours work to pull it out, restrip the tek to the new length and pull it through again.

Chemicals I am still finding a balance...  The analyst in me really wants to get a good water test kit.. The lazy guy in me wants to live with the test strips provided... I am going to try and bear with the strips and see what I run into.. The dealer is a 40 minute drive from the house so free water tests there are not an option to often. There is a couple stores in town though. Will just need to figure out what chems they sell and how they compare.

I was leaning towards going with Spa Marvel.. At this time I am happy without. If I find balance an issue I may try it.

Last note. I filled the tub with my unfiltered well water. I totally forgot to put the inline filters I bought on the hose. I ended up with some orange staining around the edge of the tub (ring around the tub). It rubbed off by hand. Dealer through in some mineral/scale stuff to help clear it out. Filters were also pretty orange. So I pulled them out to wash and put in some new ones..

Probably over kill!

thanks all,

Mike

[swilly1000]

I read some stories and watched a lot of videos about the conduit not lining up with the right spot on the underside of the tub and overkilled my planning on that as a result.  When the conduit was being trenched in I noticed the electrician was off by six inches and had him move it.  That was stressful because I didn't want to take the effort to run it underneath only to find out we missed the mark. It worked fine but I did stress that one.

I've been using test strips and they are fine. I had some cloudy water and a ring around the tub one time (from an overly scented soap I used for a day when I ran out of Ivory) but I fixed it with some choriaid.  I went to a local chemical supply place (not the dealer) when my alkalinity and ph were low, got some alkalinity increaser and quickly got the water back in balance. They ran a water test and gave me the detailed report on the water which greatly supplements and confirms the test strips. By all means go to the guys in town rather than a long drive to the dealer.

I'm using Spa Marvel and bought a one year supply from HTU in appreciation of the great info I got there. Only a month in so far so time will tell on that but so far so good.

This week I ordered a second set of filters to rotate in when I do the overnight clean so I don't have to shut down the tub. I'm told that it's a good idea to let them dry out fully after the deep clean which should prolong their lives.

I used the x10 filter when filling the tub.  Can you use a sequestering agent to make up for not using the filter?

Most of all......HOW DO YOU LIKE THE PERFORMANCE???

[bud16415]

When I installed my, tub built my deck etc. I added an outdoor faucet the type that goes thru the wall and drains down as to not freeze. As it happened the location was behind the kitchen fridge and I made my connection with PEX tubing under the sink. I mounted a mixing valve setup under the sink so the water to the deck can be adjusted between pure hot to pure cold. I then made a short hose that would be easy to drain to just reach around the deck about 12’ long and gave it a fire hose nozzle that makes a powerful concentrated spray.

What clogs up the filter is a greasy, waxy stuff as it is oils and soaps and dead skin and such that get dissolved in the hot water. Blasting a filter with cold water is like cleaning a bacon frying pan with cold water it just makes more sludge. What cleans a filter best is even hotter water.

I go in the house reach under the sink flip the valve to pure hot and spray the filter pleats for about 10 minutes. You can just watch the color of the filter return to white as the dirt washes away. The dealer when we bought our tub said at least once a year replace the filter ours is going on 4 years old and looks new.

As a side benefit of having hot water on the deck is ice removal from the steps and walk way and also the cover. I blast the ice a little and it comes loose from the deck and I can shovel it off easy. It is very hard on a cover to be folded open with chunks of frozen stuff on it. When we have friends over I hit the deck and stairs with hot water right before we go out and they like the fact they are not walking bare foot thru snow.

When the tub needs topped off hot water also works great as it doesn’t cool the water.     

[Michael Russell]

The conduit for me is the conduit in the tub itself. I was planning all along of running Tek cable (heavy armoured/rubberized cable) directly to the tub. The corner of the tub I went in though the conduit in the tub does not line up with the hole in the tub. It could probably be adjusted but I had the installer put the cover lifter on which block the panel I would need to remove to adjust it. In the end I just ran the tek along the outside of the tub. Its hidden and out of sight so its ok.

As my well water needs some PH Decreaser and Calcium increaser. I have most of the majors covered off already. More bottles of chems then I know what they all are Still only a couple days in so trying to find that happy place. Using the tub twice a day is not helping I am sure! Really my well water is quite good. The biggest issue I have is that it has Iron Bacteria in it. Out of the well though I am getting a PH of 7.9, Hardness of 106ppm and alkalinity of 181.  So really we are not to far off of balanced. To deal with the iron bacteria the dealer suggested some descaller which I used. Ring went away..

Performance wise.. Love the tub. The master seemed to have slightly better pressure out of the seats which still seems to hold true. That said the Hot zone jets in the Marquis kicks A$$. The two big jets in the Epic are super strong. I love them!

All said super happy. The conduit thing is minor inconvenience. Fit and finish on the tub is great. I don't like the small plastic caps they use over the screws. They break off super easy. Not the end of the world though as you don't see them from the deck.

I read some stories and watched a lot of videos about the conduit not lining up with the right spot on the underside of the tub and overkilled my planning on that as a result.  When the conduit was being trenched in I noticed the electrician was off by six inches and had him move it.  That was stressful because I didn't want to take the effort to run it underneath only to find out we missed the mark. It worked fine but I did stress that one.

I've been using test strips and they are fine. I had some cloudy water and a ring around the tub one time (from an overly scented soap I used for a day when I ran out of Ivory) but I fixed it with some choriaid.  I went to a local chemical supply place (not the dealer) when my alkalinity and ph were low, got some alkalinity increaser and quickly got the water back in balance. They ran a water test and gave me the detailed report on the water which greatly supplements and confirms the test strips. By all means go to the guys in town rather than a long drive to the dealer.

I'm using Spa Marvel and bought a one year supply from HTU in appreciation of the great info I got there. Only a month in so far so time will tell on that but so far so good.

This week I ordered a second set of filters to rotate in when I do the overnight clean so I don't have to shut down the tub. I'm told that it's a good idea to let them dry out fully after the deep clean which should prolong their lives.

I used the x10 filter when filling the tub.  Can you use a sequestering agent to make up for not using the filter?

Most of all......HOW DO YOU LIKE THE PERFORMANCE???

[Michael Russell]

My issue is the water through my filtration system is not ideal for the tub. My softner removes all hardness down to 0. It also throws the alkalinity and PH off a little bit....

My hose is actually right beside the tub. I changed it to bypass the filtration system as we use it for the gardens. It would not be much to put a bypass switch in to have either though or mix in some hot.. Something to think about. Thanks for the suggestion.

Filters I plan on washing inside in my laundry sink. Its only a few steps inside the house from the tub and I have hot water there. I plan on swapping filters out for washing. Will see how that goes for now.

Still lots to learn and find that happy place in dealing with the chemicals.

thanks all

Mike

When I installed my, tub built my deck etc. I added an outdoor faucet the type that goes thru the wall and drains down as to not freeze. As it happened the location was behind the kitchen fridge and I made my connection with PEX tubing under the sink. I mounted a mixing valve setup under the sink so the water to the deck can be adjusted between pure hot to pure cold. I then made a short hose that would be easy to drain to just reach around the deck about 12’ long and gave it a fire hose nozzle that makes a powerful concentrated spray.

What clogs up the filter is a greasy, waxy stuff as it is oils and soaps and dead skin and such that get dissolved in the hot water. Blasting a filter with cold water is like cleaning a bacon frying pan with cold water it just makes more sludge. What cleans a filter best is even hotter water.

I go in the house reach under the sink flip the valve to pure hot and spray the filter pleats for about 10 minutes. You can just watch the color of the filter return to white as the dirt washes away. The dealer when we bought our tub said at least once a year replace the filter ours is going on 4 years old and looks new.

As a side benefit of having hot water on the deck is ice removal from the steps and walk way and also the cover. I blast the ice a little and it comes loose from the deck and I can shovel it off easy. It is very hard on a cover to be folded open with chunks of frozen stuff on it. When we have friends over I hit the deck and stairs with hot water right before we go out and they like the fact they are not walking bare foot thru snow.

When the tub needs topped off hot water also works great as it doesn’t cool the water.     

[bud16415]

I haven’t tried it but one hot tub dealer in our area suggested using the dishwasher also. He warned to use a setting that didn’t have heated drying. 

[Michael Russell]

Hey Bud..

You mentioned the dishwasher and it reminded me of an article I skimmed over back when I was looking at tubs..

https://www.hottubworks.com/blog/clean-spa-filters-in-the-dishwasher/


In short the author felt it did not clean the filter adequately.

There are some other suggestions to look at...

Mike

I haven’t tried it but one hot tub dealer in our area suggested using the dishwasher also. He warned to use a setting that didn’t have heated drying.

[swilly1000]

...the Hot zone jets in the Marquis kicks A$$. The two big jets in the Epic are super strong. I love them!

I remember hitting those jets on a wet test....sweeeet.

[bud16415]

Hey Bud..

You mentioned the dishwasher and it reminded me of an article I skimmed over back when I was looking at tubs..

https://www.hottubworks.com/blog/clean-spa-filters-in-the-dishwasher/


In short the author felt it did not clean the filter adequately.

There are some other suggestions to look at...

Mike

I haven’t tried it but one hot tub dealer in our area suggested using the dishwasher also. He warned to use a setting that didn’t have heated drying.

I tend to agree with that write up and haven’t tried the dishwasher and likely wont. The only exception to those directions and I feel is a really big one is in using really hot water. And a lot of concentrated pressure. The spray back I get from my jet nozzle is more than I would like to do indoors so I just do it on the deck even in the winter. I wait for a break in the weather like a January thaw day and do it then.

Another tip I have found works for me is timing your water changes to work around winter. When I can I like to change the water about now. Get in and really clean out the shell good and flush it all out. Come spring or late winter if the water is looking a little old but its too cold to be out there draining the tub and cleaning it I do a partial drain and fill. Taking a third to half the water out will do amazing things to your test numbers and leave the water  looking much better and will buy you a month or two on the water.

I have a hose coiled up on the end of the deck with one end attached to my houses waster water sewer line that goes back to the waste treatment plant. The other end has the hose connection to the drain valve on the tub. Takes about a minute to attach it and open the valve. No flooding the back yard with hot water and making a ice rink. I drain it down and then add hot back in until the water heater runs out of hot and then mixed with the cold the tub hardly drops at all. Within a hour or two we are back in it.

I actually thought about using this method all year long and only doing a major change and fill once a year.

What I normally do right before I change the water or do a partial change is get in the tub the night before and take a micro fiber cloth and wipe it down really good. We do this actually about once a month normally the day before I clean the filter. Keeps the acrylic as slick as new.